Why can I only pick padlocks?

[rerun]

First let me start off by saying thank you to LP101 and all its users for sharing all this great information on what I consider to be a great hobby. Now on to my problem...

My girlfriend bought be a lock pick set as a gift, as I asked, because lock picking was always something that intrigued me. After reading a lot on this site about picking and trying different methods I was soon able to pick my first lock, a no.3 master lock. Needless to say it was surprisingly easy. From then on I've gone to all the local stores and bought about a dozen different padlocks... mostly master, brinks, guard security and baton. Again these are all padlocks or disc locks. There isn't a single lock in my collection that i cannot pick in under 20 seconds so naturally I'm beginning to think I'm some sort of lock picking savant or something.

One day I decide I'm going to pick all the door locks in my house. Now, granted, all of these locks are quite old and some of them very weathered. But so what? I can pick the most expensive master lock I can find! And here is where I hit my brick wall.....I cannot open any of these freaking door locks, minus one. Most of them are kwikset locks, which, from what I've read, are supposed to be easy to pick. What is my problem here? Could it be the locks are too old and damaged internally? There is one that looks like it is in very bad shape from erosion, but the keys can open them, just not me and my new found skill. I've tried SPP, raking, and scrubbing using all of the 14 picks i have, but to no avail. What the hell am I doing wrong??? Do i need to spray graphite into the cylinders or am I just not good enough?

[Solomon]

Now, granted, all of these locks are quite old and some of them very weathered. But so what? I can pick the most expensive master lock I can find!?

I've found in a lot of old/worn locks that the feedback is either very dull or practically non-existent. You can feel the binding just fine, but as you actually push the pins into place, there is only a very dull click as each pin sets - sometimes they'll just come to a stop and there's no real indication of sets other than that although most of the time it doesn't cause a problem. As long as you keep a mental note the binding order you should be able to figure out if something is oversetting along the way.

Just because a lock is old or worn doesn't mean this is the case though, your locks might give great feedback for all I know but it's very common. Which pin is binding first, and what sort of feedback does it give? Can you give us any information other than it just won't pick open?

To be honest, a kwikset isn't much harder than a master lock. Padlocks generally need more tension since you have to overcome the spring return before the pins will bind, maybe you're just so used to picking padlocks you're automatically using the same amount for the kwikset without actually figuring out the right amount for it. Being in a door there will be a spring return aswell, but it's not the same as a padlock. You can use the lightest of tension to pick a deadbolt, the spring return doesn't actually give any resistance and in a lot of cases once open you can remove the wrench and it'll stay picked.

This is the case over here anyway, I don't know what the actual door hardware in the US is like but I'd assume it's somewhat similar.

It could just be a simple case of not adapting to it yet aswell, after all it's a whole different feel to picking a padlock in your hand. You could be oversetting pins as a result of the bitting or simply being careless... or if the lock is stiff, you can't reverse pick any overset pins so it could be that too. Or maybe when raking, you could be overdoing the tension. As a matter of fact you might have even picked it without knowing, if the last pin sets and it only rotates a hairs amount maybe you're mistaking it for a normal set. I dunno. More detail would really help

I take it you do understand what you're doing/feeling for and not just randomly wiggling the pick around? I only ask this because with just about any master lock, that's pretty much all you have to do. You're not paying for the cylinder, you're paying for the name and the fact that they look beefy. They all have really crappy cylinders, even the most expensive ones

Oh, and don't pick locks in use yadda yadda. We all do it, and can't stop you from trying, but it's not a good idea unless you're 100% sure what you're doing so you might wanna get some old locks off ebay or something instead.

[rerun]

Thanks for your feedback Solomon. After reading your post I'm pretty sure I've been using way too much tension. The cylinders move a couple of mm's just by applying tension without the pick even inserted. I've also found the first pin (1st pin is the deepest right?) to be very stiff.

I know I'm a noob at picking, but until I started with these deadbolts I thought I had a very good feel/touch as far as setting the pins and proper tension. I'm going to go give them a try again now after reading your post. I will come back with more details and, hopefully, better results. Thanks again

[chaos4zap]

When I first started, I ran into the same issue. There is a transition period going from padlocks to door locks. You get use to being able to move the padlock around anyway you want, you get use to that extra feedback you feel through the lock body and you get use to far too much tension (as compared to door locks) I would assume that most doors on your place are keyed alike? Whats the biting like? Maybe you just have a more challenging set-up. I'm not sure what you meant by the 1st pin being the deepest, this certainly isn't always the case. I haven't noticed any sort of pattern to where high and low pins are placed, it all seems pretty random to me. If the first pin is the deepest cut in your key, then you have slightly more difficult biting (especially if that pin is anything other than the last pin to set), since you have to reach around it to get at the other pins and this can sometimes lead to pushing more on that first pin and oversetting it. All-in-All, this scenario is not much more difficult, just coupled with your fresh transition from pad-locks those factors are probably what's giving you such a hard time. I would suggest trying to find some door locks not in use, then mount them in a piece of wood that you can adjust to different heights to get use to it. That way you could also play around with removing a few pins and building up to the total 5-6 pins (Assuming it's easily re-keyable). I suppose this is just my current style, but when I'm doing a door lock I tend to kneel down and look at the lock straight on to get a better picture of whats going on, if the lock doesn't open quickly, then this posture gets uncomfortable really quick and being that uncomfortable will often distract me from the task at hand. Hopefully, when I get more experience, I won't have to bend over so much and focus more on the feedback in my hands to get he job done.

[af_newbie]

rerun,

I'm in the same boat. It think it is probably a natural adjustment that we have to go through.
Muscles have to adjust to different angles and hand positions.

Forget about opening used door locks, especially if they have security pins. Practice on Kwikset or see-through lock.

I find that this hobby, is like a computer game, you go through skill levels. Consider Master Lock#3 type of locks to be level 1. You can only move to the next level by mastering the previous level. Otherwise, you stay on Level 1 for a long time, or move on to play another game

[pin_pusher]

a jewelers vice can come in very handy...if you're always picking padlocks in your hands, try it in a vice. the way i used to hold lock cores from doors got me real used to opening locks just in my hand...same applied for padlocks, because they are easy to hold and pick it makes other locks harder to get used to without holding in your hand. just a thought...i now mount locks and face them head on to adjust. switching up helps practice.

[cds333]

Door locks usually have more pins than padlocks, and for each pin you add your difficulty level increases exponentially, especially for beginners. As chaos said, I would try removing a few of the pins and working your way up.

[rerun]

After reading all these replies I've been able to pick all of the deadbolts in my house, but only by raking. I try to single pin pick them and I'm having a very tough time, even using slightest of tension. I know there are alot of factors that go into picking a particular lock, but what pick do you guys prefer when picking a deadbolt? I've been trying with my short hook but I just can't seem to find the right touch. I know alot of people use the half diamond so maybe I should give that a try. Anyway, thank you all for the replies, they've really helped

[femurat]

you haven't listened to the most important suggestion: don't pick locks in use... if you want to break quickly your house locks rake them strong! if you prefer a failure in the future just use a hook or an half diamond.

Cheers

[rerun]

The deadbolt I've been focusing on the most leads to my basement and isn't in use. Thank you for the heads up though

[Solomon]

I know there are alot of factors that go into picking a particular lock, but what pick do you guys prefer when picking a deadbolt? I've been trying with my short hook but I just can't seem to find the right touch. I know alot of people use the half diamond so maybe I should give that a try. Anyway, thank you all for the replies, they've really helped

I just go for a short hook at first, and if I can't scoop under a pin enough to set one behind it I'll get a medium or offset to get at it.

The half diamond is more for scrubbing/SPP combo and the feedback isn't as nice as with a hook. You're better off sticking with hooks until you do get the feel for it, trust me it takes a while

[rerun]

Alright so I went out and bought a cylinder holder/vice, along with a schlage 5 pin practice cylinder. I've been going at it for 3 days now but to no avail. it's almost as if the key way is too small for me to get my hook in there properly and feel around. I ordered a couple more picks that i think will help me get in there.

On another note: I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere on this site but to save me some time I was wondering if someone could tell me if this is a wrong way to pick....when i get my hook in there, instead of lifting the pins straight up and down I kinda use my pick in a level-type fashion, almost like a see-saw to set my pins. I used this method with all my padlocks and had great success, but with this schlage key way I just don't have the room to do this with some of the pins. Soon I'll have my own workstation for making my own tools which will help a lot I'm sure, but until then I was hoping someone on here had some more feedback as to how to overcome the small space I have to work with with this schlage. A million thank yous to this great community for all the help. Oh, and sorry for coming off as such a noob on a site full of pros.

[weilawei]

I was wondering if someone could tell me if this is a wrong way to pick....when i get my hook in there, instead of lifting the pins straight up and down I kinda use my pick in a level-type fashion, almost like a see-saw to set my pins.

This is a great way to break your picks. Lift them up, don't lever on them.

[Raymond]

Although many persons have become very successful at raking, it is still more luck than skill. Raking is just gambling that you get lucky and set the pins while flopping the pick around. If raking is all you learn to do then you have 'missed the boat'. Please do not misunderstand me as I rake also. As a working locksmith my purpose is to get the lock open anyway I can that is cost efficient and nondestructive so I can repair or rekey it.

SPP (single pin picking) is how you develop the skill and feel that makes raking more successful. So please teach yourself the art of SPP.

[Solomon]

Alright so I went out and bought a cylinder holder/vice, along with a schlage 5 pin practice cylinder. I've been going at it for 3 days now but to no avail. it's almost as if the key way is too small for me to get my hook in there properly and feel around. I ordered a couple more picks that i think will help me get in there.

On another note: I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere on this site but to save me some time I was wondering if someone could tell me if this is a wrong way to pick....when i get my hook in there, instead of lifting the pins straight up and down I kinda use my pick in a level-type fashion, almost like a see-saw to set my pins. I used this method with all my padlocks and had great success, but with this schlage key way I just don't have the room to do this with some of the pins. Soon I'll have my own workstation for making my own tools which will help a lot I'm sure, but until then I was hoping someone on here had some more feedback as to how to overcome the small space I have to work with with this schlage. A million thank yous to this great community for all the help. Oh, and sorry for coming off as such a noob on a site full of pros.

The standard schlage keyway is huge... trust me, the picks aren't the issue. Even with the wrench at the bottom of the keyway there is a wide open space to get at the pins, the only reason I'd see you not having enough room would be if you jammed it in the middle so it was literally right under the pins. Can you get a pic of the lock and the way you're tensioning it? That would be a great help so we can see what you're actually doing.

As for your picking technique, it's best to avoid getting right under the pins and levering like that. You'll find it much easier to overset pins this way; you wanna get at the pins from an angle so you're keeping the contact with other pins to a minimum. Not to mention that if you're being heavy handed, it'll put a lot of stress on the pick.

Another thing that might be causing problems is spool pins. I'm not in the US, but as far as I know, schlage cylinders have spools so you should do some research on those aswell.

Good luck!