Hey - Couple of important questions

[Petzy]

First off im new to the forum so i should Hi to you all.

Second, id like to apologize in advance to the moderatos if i opened this thread in the wrong forum section, hope it won't get deleted.


So let's start, im interested in a couple of things, and maybe you all can help me out:


1. Is there anything you can insert in the key-hole of a lock (something liquid form, or modeling or something) and when you insert it, is shapes to the key-hole, then you pull it and cut a blank key exactly to the right order and voila..u got the right key for the lock and just open it? is this posible or ..?

2. Have you ever heard about manual pick guns but with a 4x zoom lens and lighting? basically u see into the the lock..you see the pins and set them manually 1 by 1. If yes, how effective do you think it is compared to other products/techniques?

3. Probably my most important question, after i pick a lock..how do i close it back up? using the tension wrench in the opposite direction i opened, or..?


Thanks in advance for your responses.

[EmCee]

Hi Petzy and welcome to the forum.

1. No. If you invest some time in learning how a lock works you'll see why this would be impossible.

2. No. You might be confusing this with something else - there is a scope with light and a tension wrench attached. You can't use a pick gun to set pins manually 1 by 1 - that's not how it works and not what it's intended to do - and a light or lens on a pick gun would be pointless.

3. Why is that your most important question? Don't pick locks that are in use because picking can damage them with the risk that they won't lock or unlock even with the key. When picking a lock in your hand etc - one that is not 'in use' in a door or whatever - then yes, just turn it back with the wrench (assuming it's a pin cylinder we're talking about). A lock that is 'in use' might be different depending on the lock - for example it might have to be turned completely more than once, which would mean picking it more than once to open it, which would mean picking it again to lock it.

Cheers...

[Klaiviel]

Petzy you watch too many movies. =P Spend some time lurking around here and you'll figure out how the whole process works.

[Petzy]

Petzy you watch too many movies. =P Spend some time lurking around here and you'll figure out how the whole process works.

I diden't say i believe those things, that's why i asked ^_^

[Petzy]

Hi Petzy and welcome to the forum.

1. No. If you invest some time in learning how a lock works you'll see why this would be impossible.

2. No. You might be confusing this with something else - there is a scope with light and a tension wrench attached. You can't use a pick gun to set pins manually 1 by 1 - that's not how it works and not what it's intended to do - and a light or lens on a pick gun would be pointless.

3. Why is that your most important question? Don't pick locks that are in use because picking can damage them with the risk that they won't lock or unlock even with the key. When picking a lock in your hand etc - one that is not 'in use' in a door or whatever - then yes, just turn it back with the wrench (assuming it's a pin cylinder we're talking about). A lock that is 'in use' might be different depending on the lock - for example it might have to be turned completely more than once, which would mean picking it more than once to open it, which would mean picking it again to lock it.

Cheers...

Hello, thank you for your answers, i admin i diden't research that much how locks work.

Just started browsing around and im gonna start reading asap.

Im interested in doors, since i have a security firm in my country i'd like to develop some new ways (if possible) of securing locks.
Especially door locks.

For example, the door to my apartment has 2 locks.
One up and one down near the door handle.
The one near the door handle i never use (don't know why, habbit i guess) but i use the top one.
It's a pin tumbler lock, and it works like so:

I can close the lock one, two or three times.
I usually close it 2 times, rarely once or third.

Consequently if i would to pick my apartment door lock, i'd have to pick it twice, since i turned the key twice when closing it right?

So i pick it once, it unlocks, i turn the wrench and after i turn it the pin's go back into a lock position, then i have to pick it again and turn the wrench again and then the door will open, right?

Ok, asuming the answer will be yes, how do i close it back 2 times, without using my key? is it possible? i mean..if i turn the tension wrench 2 times oposite direction, it will close?

You mentioned some risks involved, like the lock could malfunction by doing this, please elaborate.

Thanks.

[Petzy]

The pick tool i was refering to is this :

http://www.keymam.com/product_view.asp?pid=1212

I see that it is stated to use for car locks, i was wondering can it be used for example for door locks?
The basic idea behind it seems to be that you literally see the pins when your picking, and thus can pick it easier.

What do you think?

[Petzy]

The pick tool i was refering to is this :

http://www.keymam.com/product_view.asp?pid=1212

I see that it is stated to use for car locks, i was wondering can it be used for example for door locks?
The basic idea behind it seems to be that you literally see the pins when your picking, and thus can pick it easier.

What do you think?

Also, what is this key? why is it different from the "traditional" ones?

http://ftextures.com/textures/door-key-bump-map-1.jpg

What kind of lock does it unlock?
Is it a harder lock or easier to pick, stuff like that, related.
I need more info so i can put my firm up.

[illusion]

The pick tool i was refering to is this :

http://www.keymam.com/product_view.asp?pid=1212

I see that it is stated to use for car locks, i was wondering can it be used for example for door locks?
The basic idea behind it seems to be that you literally see the pins when your picking, and thus can pick it easier.

What do you think?

Also, what is this key? why is it different from the "traditional" ones?

http://ftextures.com/textures/door-key-bump-map-1.jpg

What kind of lock does it unlock?
Is it a harder lock or easier to pick, stuff like that, related.
I need more info so i can put my firm up.

You could use it to see inside and light the keyway up a bit more but it wouldn't really help you picking - What you could do on a 'door lock' is pick the lock, turn the plug and measure how high the bottom pins can be lifted until they meet the top of the plug - if you had a great eye for small detail and/or accurate pin length measurements. This would allow you, with practice and sufficient research, to potentially decode the lock and cut a key. Of course there are other, arguably better, ways of doing it but this should give you an idea of how that sort of thing works.

The key you showed unlocks a dimple lock, so called because the cuts of the key look like baby dmples cut into the face of the key. They work in the same way that a normal pin cylinder works, only the key is inserted horizontally into the lock.

[Jaakko]

I need more info so i can put my firm up.

I really would suggest learning even the basic locks functioning before even thinking of putting a security firm up.

[sailorjim]

I have never heard of a manual pick gun with 4x zoom. That would be great. I just ordered a manual wallet set and I'm looking at manual guns for my next purchase. My friend has a gun and even though it's kind of loud, it is very efficient.

[Petzy]

I need more info so i can put my firm up.

I really would suggest learning even the basic locks functioning before even thinking of putting a security firm up.

Im doing that right now and asking questions here

[Petzy]

I have never heard of a manual pick gun with 4x zoom. That would be great. I just ordered a manual wallet set and I'm looking at manual guns for my next purchase. My friend has a gun and even though it's kind of loud, it is very efficient.

Well, that gun in the link i posted is manual, in the sence it dosen't vibrate or something.
And it has the lens and the zoom, it's just for cars.

[EmCee]

Consequently if i would to pick my apartment door lock, i'd have to pick it twice, since i turned the key twice when closing it right?....how do i close it back 2 times, without using my key? is it possible? i mean..if i turn the tension wrench 2 times oposite direction, it will close?

You mentioned some risks involved, like the lock could malfunction by doing this, please elaborate.

Yes, you have that correct. You would have to pick it twice to open if it's been closed by turning the key twice (or pick it three times if key was turned three times). Each time you turn it 360deg then as you say the pins will reset (they'll also snag at 180deg so you'll have to move them there too). When you turn it back to lock it the same thing will happen, so yes, you'd have to pick it two or three times depending on how many times the plug has to turn.

Picking, especially by an inexperienced person, might damage the lock in several ways. Some locks are also designed to 'lock up' if the wrong key is used or picks are used. If the lock is on a Master Key system there's the risk of damage that would prevent the Master Key from working even if the individual key still worked. In that case, next time the apartment owner or landlord or possibly fire service tries to get in, they'll know the lock has been tampered with and they will not be happy and will use your security deposit or bill you for a replacement. If it's a rental apartment and depending on where you live and your rental contract, the locks might be on your door but they are 'owned' by the landlord who has not given you permission to pick them.

Re-reading your first post, in item 1 you might be talking about impressioning, where plasticine or foil might be used to 'read' the lock. But it's not as simple as shoving some liquid or malleable material into the lock and hey presto, the lock opens or a working key can be cut. It needs a lot of practice and experience.

The tool you show is not a manual pick gun, so it might be a problem of terminology. Of course, any individual 'pick' is manual in the sense that you manipulate it with your hand, but a manual pick gun is a specific tool.

Illusion has explained how you might use the tool you showed - and also identified the dimple lock key. I think dimple locks are generally considered more difficult to pick than pin tumblers, but that really is a general statement because it depends on the security level of the lock and even then individual locks can be easier or harder to pick than the 'norm'.

I have never heard of a manual pick gun with 4x zoom. That would be great.

Hi sailorjim. That's because there is no such thing. I don't know why it would be 'great' as having a zoom lens on a manual pick gun would not help the operation of the pick gun in any way.

Cheers...