Filing barrel

[minifhncc]

Hi all,

When rekeying I often find that the new pins don't quite line up to the shear line. For example, if I am trying to rekey to 12345 (say) and I use the corresponding sized pins for the manufacturer (#1, #2, ..., #5 for my example) then I find that these pins aren't tall enough so when I actually operate the lock without any adjustment then there is a slight "clicking" (or catching) when the key is turned.

So to fix the problem I just use a metal file to file down the barrel until the key turns smoothly.

What does everyone else here do? Is it possible that I am being too obsessive?

Thanks

[Squelchtone]

Hi all,

When rekeying I often find that the new pins don't quite line up to the shear line. For example, if I am trying to rekey to 12345 (say) and I use the corresponding sized pins for the manufacturer (#1, #2, ..., #5 for my example) then I find that these pins aren't tall enough so when I actually operate the lock without any adjustment then there is a slight "clicking" (or catching) when the key is turned.

So to fix the problem I just use a metal file to file down the barrel until the key turns smoothly.

What does everyone else here do? Is it possible that I am being too obsessive?

Thanks

So wait, you're filing the surface of the plug until the pins are flush with the key inserted? I'd code cut some new keys for the customer, sounds like their keys are worn down and aren't lifting the key pins to a 100% smooth shear line. are you using a .003 or .005 universal pin kit? I have a .003 and dont have this issue, but I know what you're talking about, had it happen with a Folger Adam mogul I had to repin.

maybe some of our practicing locksmiths can lend some advice,
Squelchtone

[lunchb0x]

As squelchtone said you should code cut the keys. If you ever have to file something it should be the bottoms of the pins, use a bottom pin that is too high, turn it upside down and file a flat spot on it, this is the only part that should be filed to get everything at the correct hight. Filing the plug does work and really as long as there are no master pins in the lock and it's only a slight flat spot you aren't going to damage anything, but, it's still not the right way to go about it.

[Altashot]

I Agree. A properly cut key should be used. However, if a proper key is not available or it must be keyed to that key, then pin it 1 high. As per your example it would be pinned to 2-3-4-5-6 then file the pins to meet the shear line. Filling the plug can ruin the cylinder, especially if it masterkeyed. I have seen cylinder that quit working because a thin master wafers slipped out of it's proper pin chamber and fell into another one. Essentially, filling the plug will make a cylinder with close tolerances to become "sloppy". It is then easier to pick and can accommodate poorly or miscut keys. The only reason I would file a plug is when I replace a cylinder on an apartment building. Many of the tenants keys are copies of copies, some were cut improperly by untrained people at places like the corner store or the shoemaker...it is not always possible to replace all the keys and some landlords are too cheap to pay to get the job done properly. I just know that if I key the cylinder to one provided key, half of them will no longer work. This procedure is called: Apartmentizing. In addition to filling the plug down, I also replace the top pins with bottom/key pins with their pointy end towards the shear line. That way, when poorly,worn down keys are used, whether they are cut too high or too low (to a degree), they will still work.
I hate apartmentizing a cylinder. I start with a new cylinder with close tolerances, create artificial wear to make it more" tolerant" just so it can accept bad keys...What a shame...Sometimes, you are left with no other choices. Not all landlords understand why suddenly half the keys stop working when they all worked on the old cylinder.

M.

[minifhncc]

Hi,

Thanks for all your responses.

I DO code cut keys and I only use code cut keys when rekeying. I use LAB pins which have 0.005 increments I believe. I mainly rekey Lockwood locks and it seems that the LAB pins aren't quite the same which leads to the problem. But it catches slightly if I don't file. Maybe that is intentional? I'm not sure, as I've had to file nearly every single lock that I haven't filed before (even new ones) in order to get it 100% smooth. So maybe it's a case that I'm being obsessive and I shouldn't file anything?

I actually learnt this practice from other locksmiths when had rekeying done by them. But I gather that I shouldn't do it now.

Also, I don't think they sell the 0.003 kit here.

Thanks again

[minifhncc]

By the way, the cylinders aren't master keyed.

[Teddy Picker]

If my understanding is correct, filing the barrel could make locks much easier to pick. You're essentially increasing the tolerances of the lock. Instead of having a shear line, a lock with a filed barrel has more of a sheer "gap".

[MBI]

If my understanding is correct, filing the barrel could make locks much easier to pick. You're essentially increasing the tolerances of the lock. Instead of having a shear line, a lock with a filed barrel has more of a sheer "gap".

Yes, it makes a wider shear line, and you pretty much make it so you can't masterkey that cylinder in the future since a master wafer could slip into the gap. It's generally regarded as a shoddy locksmithing shortcut.
Surprisingly enough though, I've seen cheaper locks come that way from the factory, with the top of the plug and the bottom pins roughly filed flush instead of using the proper length pins.

[Altashot]

Did you try to pin it 0.005 taller and see if that works better? Or is it a LAB kit specific for Lockwood?
Either way ,you shouldn't have to file plugs. Pin in too high and file the pins down instead.
You're not obsessive, you just want to offer quality workmanship. Nothing wrong with that.

@Teddy Picker: "Precisely!"

M.

[Raymond]

Did you try to pin it 0.005 taller and see if that works better? Or is it a LAB kit specific for Lockwood?

I agree! this is the preferred solution. Even if you have to file down one or two pins by 2-3 thousandths, it it better than filing the plug. Several accomodating examples were mentioned but those must be LAST choice examples.

A better solution would be to persuade the manager to allow recutting the renter's keys. You could pin the common door one depth deeper and then all the renter keys could be cut down to fit. The managed would not have to buy all new keys and it would only cost you a little more time. Also, the renters may be having the same problems with their key and just hadn't told the manager yet. Some people will compensate right up until it stops working completely.

[minifhncc]

Did you try to pin it 0.005 taller and see if that works better? Or is it a LAB kit specific for Lockwood?

Okay, I feel like an idiot now. I'll explain why.

I usually buy the LAB Lockwood sized pins for repinning. I believe the sizes are as follows,

#1 - 0.165
#2 - 0.180
#3 - 0.195
...
#9 - 0.285

I actually did not think of, before your question, to consider buying the pins in between those sizes... I actually feel like the biggest idiot ever. I'm actually now embarrassed with the number of cylinders that I've filed down

By the way, I'm not a locksmith and I do not offer services to the public. I'm involved with property management. I only rekey properties that I'm actually involved with. Most owners wouldn't want to fork out $100 or so for a locksmith to rekey after a tenant has left. I started to rekey them myself, without charging the owners, after many incidents of previous tenants entering back into their former home. It has actually stopped previous tenants from reentering their old home.

[minifhncc]

But, when I have used locksmiths in the past, I have found that they had done the same thing. So I naturally follow their lead. I guess I shouldn't anymore. It's disappointing because these were reputable locksmiths as well (they were members of the MLAA and Bilock/Abloy dealers).

[Altashot]

I work 9 to 5 and most of the tenants do too so getting their key is very difficult. Theoretically possible but, not in the field. I explored this avenue before and found that it is nearly impossible to get everyone's key recut. It would take several visits to accomplish this and it wouldn't be economical to me or the landlord. Not to mention that if the keys were to be recut deeper, anyone missed wouldn't be able to get in at all. No amount of jiggling would do it anymore either. (One could say it would work if you pulled the key out just a hair but it is not the way it should work.) I'd be getting calls that very same evening. I do consider aparmentizing "shody" too and only do it for the kind of "slumlord" that wont dish-out the cash or that thinks that good-enough is already to good for their "slums".
The kind of job where: You go there, fix it, get paid, get out.
That way everyone is happy but none the wiser.

M.

[MBI]

But, when I have used locksmiths in the past, I have found that they had done the same thing. So I naturally follow their lead. I guess I shouldn't anymore. It's disappointing because these were reputable locksmiths as well (they were members of the MLAA and Bilock/Abloy dealers).

When I said it was considered shoddy locksmithing, I hope you didn't take it personally.
I didn't mean to be insensitive or launch a personal attack.
As a hobbyist or someone who does it as a sideline as you do, I don't think it's at all uncommon. In a case like that I wouldn't call it unprofessional, I'd call it making do with what you have on hand.

I'm not an expert, but I've heard the practice used to be fairly common, even amongst full-time locksmiths. The method is still used by some old-timers I've known. In my opinion though, if someone is paying full retail for locksmithing services, I'd expect that locksmith to be properly equipped and not have to make shortcuts. In the odd chance that he finds himself in a circumstance where he has no other option, I'd suggest using one size larger and filing the pins instead of the plug, as others have suggested in this thread.

In fairness, I can't say I'm completely innocent here as I've done it myself now and then.
Although only on things like practice locks.

[minifhncc]

When I said it was considered shoddy locksmithing, I hope you didn't take it personally.
I didn't mean to be insensitive or launch a personal attack.

I didn't take it as a personal attack. Now that I know how to remedy it I will follow through on that. I'm glad that I asked and found the answers.