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Composites ...

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Composites ...

Postby Sinifar » 14 Mar 2013 16:40

Looking thru posts, I noticed several talk to some mythical key which will go into many keyways. This is an urban myth.

Most lock cylinders are either "Paracentric", OR "Bicentric", which means the side wards of the keyway are "over center" blocking a straight entry into the keyway. Some deep sectionals do have a large opening, and several keys can go into those, but again it must met the basic design of the lock.

There are "master mills" which are again designed to fit more than one keyway, but those would be restricted to the "family" of keyways which the masters mills are designed to cross.

There are however three keyways in residential which might meet your requirement.

Dexter - Kwikset - Weiser - and occasionally Weslock. You would need the "thinnest" of these, namely the Dexter to fit into all three (four) but it will go, as far as working, that is another matter. Wide cuts, like Kwikset and Weiser may make the thing work, but you are asking for trouble in the long run as duplicates start expanding the cuts due to differences in machines, which are not accurate.

2 - Kwikset and Weiser pins, factory original pins are "dum-dum" pins. Meaning there is no point on them. They need that wide pin land to operate. You can repin those with standard pins, and this introduces the point on the end, and could make some interchange possible.

There is a "composite cylinder" however. This claims to take several, in fact 11 different keys. BUT how well they work?

Let's start with the standard composite cylinder. The distance from the shoulder, where the key stops in the lock to the center of the first cut is .250. It is .156 between centers of the cuts. Keep this cutting data in mind. It determines where the pins will sit on the key as you cut it, then put it into the lock, and the pins need to set on the "flat" which is the pin land.

Here is the list of keyways which will fit into a composite cylinder, and the cutting data.

Arrow K6 - shoulder to 1st - .264, between cuts, .155
Dexter 67 - shoulder to 1st - .216, Between cuts .155
Falcon 573G - shoulder to 1st - .237, between cuts .156
Ilco 1054K - shoulder to 1st - .277, between cuts .156
Kwikset 1063 - shoulder to 1st - .247, between cuts .150
National EZ Set - shoulder to 1st - .250, between cuts .156 -- This is what the cylinder comes with.
Sargent S - U - shoulder to 1st - .215, between cuts .156
Segal 9 - shoulder to 1st -.245, between cuts .155
Weiser 155 - shoulder to 1st - .237, between cuts .156
Welch 5K - shoulder to 1st - .218, between cuts .174
Weslock 12344 - shoulder to 1st - .250, between cuts .156

Some difference! Pins will sit on steeples, the opening and closing ramps between cuts, or you need to make your cuts WIDE like Kwikset or Weiser to get the thing to work correctly. It can be done, but not on a regular basis, should it be done.

There are enough aftermarket cylinders made out there to cover MOST of this, and if you really need something really "odd" ask an old timer if they have one sitting around the shop in the junk box.

In the end there is no "magic bullet" of some mythical universal key which will fit everything out there. Nor even partially. Even if you had a Keyway King, the final output would be so thin it would not be serviceable.

Sinifar
The early bird may get the worm, but it is the second mouse which gets the cheese!
The only easy day was yesterday.
Celebrating my 50th year in the trade!
Sinifar
 
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Re: Composites ...

Postby jeffmoss26 » 15 Mar 2013 8:07

Excellent information as always!
"I tried smoking a blank once. I was never able to keep the tip lit long enough to inhale." - ltdbjd
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