I am new to the forum, and this is my first post. I have searched around and have not found answers to my problem, so hopefully the questions I ask won't be too stupid.
I have been trying to pick a Yale brand lock, which feels like a 5 pin lock with 2 spool/mushroom pins. I learned to pick locks on its sister locks, which are very similar. The plug requires turning through roughly 200 degrees to open the lock, and so must be turned past the 180 degree stage.
The problem: I have picked this lock several times, and each time there is difficulty rotating the plug over 180 degrees. After I overcome the resistance of the 180 degree mark, the lock returns to the original state without opening! Thus far, I have turned the lock 3x360 degrees anti-clockwise, which is strange, as the key refuses to turn the lock more than 540 degrees in normal use.
My thoughts are that the key must catch something that my picks don't, and the lock resets itself after the 180 mark when picked.
Extra info: The other side of the lock is attached to a rotating dial, such that the lock can be locked/unlocked from the inside. It's possible that this connection could have something to do with the problem. Before it is pointed out, I am aware of the rookie mistakes to bear in mind when 180ing a lock.
Making a video will be tricky, it will be a little tedious to pick the lock with my phone hanging out of my mouth trying to film
In short: I can pick the lock, but when I turn it, it sticks a little at 180. I give it a little jiggle, and it slides past and turns around the whole way, but remains locked! Confuses the hell out of me
Maybe the key pushes on someting inside the lock to allow it to rotate. I've sseen locks like that. If you insert your pick untill the end, do you feel something springy? like you can push it further? Or is it like a brick wall?
What lock is it?
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise. - GWiens2001
Most folks here who have ever picked a lock and got it stuck at 180 degrees are not dealing with a master pinned SFIC core, so what ends up happening to them is the long driver pins (as compared to the tiny master wafers) hang down in the keyway, because of the springs pushing them into the keyway, and the plug will appear "stuck" The advice we give is to insert the long end of a tension wrench or the back of your half diamond pick, and apply tension while pushing up on all the driver pins that are slightly sticking into the plug's keyway, then you can correct the lock back to the normal position, and hear it click in place.
If all of that didn't make sense, another forum member, amlwchlocksmiths, took some nice photos on this very topic, please take a look here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=47988
Hope that helps, Squelchtone
Everyone who eats potatoes eventually dies. Therefore potatoes are poisonous.
Have you only picked the lock "counter" clockwise? or have you picked it clockwise as well? Just curious as this seems pretty weird. It should stop on something in one direction, either cw or ccw. What model Yale is it? Did you take the lock apart at any time? Is it on a door in your house? Does it still work with the keys and just not work when picked? Sorry for all the questions, but it sounds like it either has an anti picking feature like fgarci03 pointed out, or it was taken apart and not reassembled correctly.
@ keysman, I know all this already, that is not the issue here.
@ phrygianradar, this lock is a yale lock, I do not know the model. The lock is mounted upside down, such that the pins have an upward spring tension, and the bible is below the plug. The lock is on a working door (not a front door), so I have not taken it apart previously.
Originally I picked the lock cw by accident, but I can't remember if I completely rotated the plug. Since then, it has been picked and rotated at least 3x ccw. Tomorrow morning I will upload a picture of the lock, it is stamped "yale" and has no other markings. I will try picking it in both directions tomorrow!
Cubic wrote:@ keysman, I know all this already, that is not the issue here.
Hi and welcome to the forum,
I have to say that If you're already aware of this, then calling your thread 180ing locks is going to be very misleading to the rest of us trying to help. Let's call it something like "I pick a lock and rotate it but it does not unlock." Just because it catches slightly at around 180 degrees is very interesting, but I don't think the cause of your problem, so let's try to .. not use "180 the lock" terminology because that phrase is already reserved in hobby lockpicking for the issue keysman linked you to (when spring loaded driver pins enter the keyway and make the plug stick after rotating 180 degrees during picking because there is no key in the keyway to stop this from happening), which I think he may have missed you mentioned that you already knew of at the last sentence of your original post.
Does the key work in THIS lock or is your experience based on the sister lock? Can this specific lock be locked and unlocked with a key, meaning you have inserted a key into it tonight and it retracts the spring loaded latch or the deadbolt? I'm just asking to establish if this lock is in good working order with a key right now or if it is mechanically faulty and neither key nor picks will work in it.
If you only picked it CW once, and several times CCW and that never opens it, I think the next think to do is pick it CW again and see if it unlocks. As I noticed phrygianradar also asked if you have a key to this lock, which way do you turn the key to unlock this door, or are you asking our help because you do not have key to this one and need our help asap to unlock that door. I wasn't clear if your call for help was out of frustration as a picker learning the ropes or as a home owner locked out of a particular door.
I will edit your post title a bit to clarify it for everyone here, hope we can all work together on figuring out what's happening to your lock.
Sounds like a euro or oval profile cylinder with an interior thumbturn. The tip of the key presses a spring loaded clutch, which engages the cam in the centre of the cylinder, and connects it to the keyed half of the cylinder. This cam is permanently connected to the thumbturn.
If this is the case, you need to use a cut down keyblank, or the handle of a wrench to push the clutch. This needs to be done with the cam in the correct position to engage the mechanism - see here:
mhole wrote:Sounds like a euro or oval profile cylinder with an interior thumbturn. The tip of the key presses a spring loaded clutch, which engages the cam in the centre of the cylinder, and connects it to the keyed half of the cylinder. This cam is permanently connected to the thumbturn.
Ha! Why can't I explain myself better?
Thanks mhole
Cubic, I too believe the issue is this!
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise. - GWiens2001
After playing around for a while this looks like the solution to the problem. I have not been able to pick it yet, but now that I know the problem I should be able to take it from here.
I plan to update you with a video or two when possible.
I discovered there's a way to rotate the sister lock, but not engage the latch. From this, I'm sure I can reverse engineer the way to open the 2nd lock. So far, it's hard to engage the latch and I'm not sure if possible yet, but watch this space!
While making videos to describe and detail the problem, I stumbled my way to the solution! I can't take all the credit however, all your help was invaluable!
In short, the solution was to find a catch, located at a random position around the edge of the plug. I found this several times before, but it appeared immovable, and I couldn't identify it as the catch I was looking for (thinking instead, I had found a small gap in the back of the lock). When I approached the catch with a screwdriver, I was able to drive the stiff mechanism to move, allowing the lock to be fully picked, and the latch to retract.
Please take these videos with a pinch of salt, they're the first videos I've ever made. Part 2 has muffled audio, I have included subtitles, but you can max out your volume if you have a fetish for an incredible British accent.
Thank you, and I look forward to learning how to become a better lockpicker still!
If you want to hear the audio on part 2, its safe to max your volume after 0:06 seconds, there's no more loud speech after that point.
