Plunger Showcase Locks

[Ruteger]

I have a little bit of a puzzle. The business which I work for just had a few thousand dollars worth of electronics stolen and we aren't sure how they got into the display case.

The two men were caught on hidden camera, but were in a position so HOW they cracked the lock couldn't be seen. It was pretty quick and had to be relatively silent so the employee 10 feet away didn't hear. There didn't appear to be any sort of distraction.

The lock (P40TG):



PDF file containing information.

When unlocked, the centre core stays with the key until it is relocked back in the ....whatever it's called. Centre thingy.

The core was found inside the case.

I'm trying to figure out a couple things.


1) Is this lock able to be forced open without damaging the lock or the display case glass?

2) If this lock has to be picked, does it require special tools?


#1) Because I need to know if the lock should be replaced with another, more secure lock if it can simply be forced open.

If it can be picked, like any other lock, than #2, if it requires special tools, then at least I have something to look for if someone tries it again.

[MrB]

I don't know anything specific about that lock, but it doesn't appear to offer any special features in the way of high security. It might have been picked, but that would take a bit of nerve and a lot of skill to do in rapidly and in full sight.

The most likely way a lock like that can be compromised quickly, quietly and in full view is with a duplicate key. Anyone who had even brief access to the key would be able to make an impression of it, or even write down the key code if it were stamped on the key.

For better security, you could consider a system like Medeco where unauthorized copying of keys is much more difficult. With the kind of locks on glass cabinet doors though, I don't know if that's possible.

Perhaps other more expert people on the forum can offer more informed comments.

[HeadHunterCEO]

maybe someone forgot to lock it

[rayman452]

maybe someone forgot to lock it

Thats how most crimes happen. Look around in the garbage, if someone did use something special, they may have thrown it away, for fear of getting caught with it. Sometimes criminals whom appear smart can do really stupid things...

[bembel]

Didn't find too much useful information about picking in this pdf. Just the usual phrases like "Greater resistance to picking" which could mean anything, from simple narrowed keyways to modified pins (which are also no bigger problem).
You must understand that glass plunger locks can't be high security locks. I recommend an additional alarm system or simply not to display expensive stuff in there (maybe you could use dummies instead).

A forensic lab could probably tell whether the lock was picked or not by examining the insides for scratch marks, but that doesnt seem to be worth it in this case.

[bembel]

P.S. What did the police say?

[omelet]

is this one of those so-called cruciform locks, with 4 sets of tumblers of 4 pins each? I dont know how easy it is to get blanks for such keys if you were to copy them, then again, the locksmiths could answer that better. Also seems pretty unlikly someone would try to pick that kind of lock on the spot in front of people using normal pin tumbler picks, but maybe a bump key?

The forgetting to lock it, or even leaving the key in the lock by employees seems much more likely though. If I were a theif, I'd be more likely to steal something that looks like an easy target even if I hadn't planned it, rather than go to alot of trouble compromising locks.

How did they manage to get away with all this stuff, since you said that there were employees 10 feet away? I have a feeling you just want us to give you ideas so that when you go rip off this place you can do it with your buddy right under their nose...

[raimundo]

since many of these papaiz type locks seem to have factory stamped keys that do not appear to have been cut, this might indicate a large set of common interchangeable keys, secondly, since it has been shown that tubular locks can be bypassed easily with a plastic pen or even a piece of cardboard, and because the X key type of lock does not show much variance in pin depts, possibly only just a few pin lengths, I would wonder what materials might easily impression this lock, I am assuming that the internal tolerances are as large as the ones for tublular locks. plastic of various materials is found in X pattern on many things that can be adapted to this use, or you could use a bembel chewinggum and foil arrangement. I don't have one of these to play with, but I believe that the tolerances internally are quite loose from the ones I have had experience with in the past. perhaps someone on this site should do the research.

[rayman452]

OOOOOoooooooo!!!!! He got you there. If you are gonna steal it, I suggest you disable that hidden security camera. You seem to know alot aobut hte surroundings. Been scouting the place out? In anycase, maybe the theif used the dyno kwik pick thingy, the rake. Pretty much no skill to use, really fast at opening lpocks like that, and pretty eas yto optain. If you want to catch these people, you can fill the case with expensive stuff again, but hide a GPS locater in one of the items. You'll catch the theif accurate up to 30 cm?

[Ruteger]

I never saw the security tapes myself yet.

No they didn't leave the lock undone, that was my first thought too. The employee working that night hadn't gotten anything out of that particular case all night and the tapes show that. As for leaving the keys laying around, I know this particular employee and she keeps the keys latched to herself. They aren't sitting around.

As for how they got away with them.... is a good question, which we are also trying to figure out. They took all of our Game Boy Advances, $110 each (Canadian). 16 of them. The video shows them simply walking out of the camera's view with them. They might have had something to store them in nearby out of the camera's view, such as a backpack.

They didn't touch the case with the gameboy DS's, which had a regular showcase lock



So either the plunger lock is much less secure or the extra size of the DS's was a hinderance to them.

No packaging was found after searching the store for a few hours.

The police came and took a look at the tapes and they have seen the guys before, they are pros, however they have still yet to identify them as they leave no prints, they only recently stole a few tvs from a department store in the town over. Covertly mind you. I'm a little curious how they pulled that off.

If they are this good, I don't see why they just don't rob banks or something.

[rayman452]

Banks are only a little harder to rob, considering they have cameras everywhere, there is the exploding bands over the money, clerks and their secret button, and to top it all of, its not worht the time and effort. A bank usually carrys around 5 thousand dollars with them at anytime, so you're better of using that skill on a TV shop, etc. ITs much easaier to sell that way, and the money isnt marked. What you could do to find out how they did it is try "stealing" the another gameboy yourself. Attempt to walk into your store, unlock the lock by any means possible, hide it, and walk out. YOu may get lucky and figure out how they did it. Tell us how it worked if its a succes, so we can all protect ourselves...

[bembel]

I'd secure it with an an alarm system.

[digital_blue]

I have a long background in electronics retail, and subsequently and unfortunately, a great deal of experience with shoplifters. I have a guess that maybe the showcase glass was pried apart (glass will bend more than one might think) enough to pass the locking pin. I don't know the showcase though, so it's only a guess. Interestingly, I've seen many showcase which have been bypassed in one form or another and I've never had and eveidence or reason to suspect picking was the method of entry. I could likely describe a dozen different methods shoplifters have used to bypass various retail security features, but I don't really think a public forum is the place to discuss such things. Picking just doesn't seem to enter into the picture. I'm sure it's been done, and is still being done, but that is probably one of the lesser things to worry about.

The absolute most effective way I have ever found to cheaply secure a showcase is to build a small alarm system that mounts inside the showcase. Construction is very simple. I'll explain very briefly, but PM me for more details or a diagram.

The materials can be obtained from most small electronics component retailers, or places like Radio Shack. Use a set of Normally Open magnetic contact switches common in alarm systems, a piezzo buzzer that operates on 9V, a 9V battery, and 9V battery clip, and some alarm wire, or telephone wire.

Set up a simple circuit where the current runs from the battery, through the magnetic switch, then through the the piezzo buzzer. Mount the workings in a small project box inside the cabinet so that the buzzer will ring every time the door is opened and remain ringing for the duration of the door being opened. Resist the temptation to put an on/off switch on this device, as this easly defeats the purpose. When an employee opens the cabinet, the buzzer will ring until the door is closed. This eliminateds the chance that an employee will accidentally leave the door open, plus it will alert staff any time the door is opened. Staff are then instructed to "shoulder check" any time they hear the buzzer to ensure that it is an employee opening the cabinet. This is pretty automatic anyway.

This method is extremely effective and has been found to greatly reduce theft from showcases and cabinets in at least one major electronics retailer in Canada.


Hope this helps.

db

[thertel]

I'm with Digital_Blue on this one, since I work in electronics retail myself and have been doing some Loss Prevention training.

A lot of the companies that make these alarm and locking systems for retail have about 10 different keys, period. Worse, some of them have one 1 different key per retailer, because it makes it easy to distribute them items through the standard logistics path the retailer uses. Another fun approach is a standard wedge attack. One I am extremely proud of is one I came up with in my store. It involves shimming the lock with a MCOT style tool.

The problem with retail locking systems, stems from basically two issues. The rate of keys issued and employee's being terminated or leaving, and secondly the trade off between the ease of implementation and maintainance vs the level of security.

I think that lock you posted a picture of has an exploit, and I'm gonna check with my Area Loss Prevention Manager Monday and I'll let ya know what she says. If that is the exact lock I think it is, you can order keys for it easily because there are only a few keys.

I may have missed it but I didn't catch where you work at. PM some more info and if you can get it, pictures of the lock in the display case.

Thomass

Thomas

[rayman452]

The shoplifting things, try not to use those little taggyt things. If put in a copper box, the copper will conduct the waves. so it owuldnt work. Or at least, ithat works for the walmart stuff. Howstuffworks tells a bit on it. I suggest using a tembered plate to block everytihhnng. When everything is set up, try and steal it yourself. Then try and get as many people to do it. If they cant do it easily, the theif will ahve a hard time.