This is my first post. I am just getting into locks, more from the improving security side than the lockpicking side. I’m helping a woman with a meth using stalker increase the security of her house to at least prevent non-destructive entry.
She has an eight foot high aluminum glass sliding door that must be able to act as an entry point for an apartment she is building onto her house and the only key-in-knob lock the door hardware will accept is a 5 cyllinder with tail. I asked a local locksmith to provide something that is bump-resistant and he said he thought bumping is not a threat as it is quite difficult to learn but he would humor me and suggested using an uncommon keyway. He sold me a Schlage F (I think it is F, been a while) with some spools in it and said a normal KW1 key would go in but wouldn’t turn the lock. I took it and installed it and it works but part of me is wondering, “Why wouldn’t a normal KW1 bump key still work on it?“ Insights? Thanks
Schlage and Kwikset use different depths and spaces. Shoulder-to-first cut on KW is .247, if I recall, while Schlage is .231. Root depth (deepest cut, used on bump keys), is .214 for KW, .200 for SC (again, going off memory, so these may not be exactly accurate).
While it’s highly unlikely a KW bump key would work on an F keyway, there are endless variations in field conditions and tolerances, so I’d hesitate to rule it out 100% if the bump key fits the keyway.
The best reason I can think of why a Kwikset bump key won't work is it will not go into a schlage F keyway
However I think you are going to need more than that to keep a meth user who is motivated from opening that sliding door. I would actually be more worried that he'll break in after hours. It's tough to keep insane people out of your home
Robotnik wrote:Schlage and Kwikset use different depths and spaces. Shoulder-to-first cut on KW is .247, if I recall, while Schlage is .231. Root depth (deepest cut, used on bump keys), is .214 for KW, .200 for SC (again, going off memory, so these may not be exactly accurate).
While it’s highly unlikely a KW bump key would work on an F keyway, there are endless variations in field conditions and tolerances, so I’d hesitate to rule it out 100% if the bump key fits the keyway.
You're right on your numbers i checked my book. I don't have any E keyways here but pictures make it look very similar to a KW1. Do you have some pictures? We might be able to come up with a way that'll allow a 6 pin cylinder to work or atleast get a better idea of what we are looking at.
OP, dont worry about the lock, aint no crack head meth addict motherf**ker gonna be sitting there picking or bumping like he's a CIA agent. Dude's gonna get the nearest brick and toss it into the very large glass door.
Get some window security laminate film and squegee it on the inside and outside of her glass door so some hoodrat or druggie with a brick or a bat can't break through it.
here is some 12 mil thick film, you can go cheaper and get 8 mil thick, but the thicker the harder to get through.
Thank you everyone for your replies. Looks like I butchered the details of my first question due to my poor memory and not investigating thoroughly. They originally told me they were going to give me a Schlage F but forgot they couldn’t find one in their disprganized store and instead gave me a Schlage E keyway. Doublechecked it against a keyway diagram and confirmed it is an E. Also I messed up on the key: they told me a SC1 (not KW1) would insert into the lock but not turn it.
Sorry about my ignorance and not investigating thoroughly before posting but I guess the question I meant to ask is: would a common SC1 bump key work on a Schlage E keyway? I tested it and a SC1 fits in the lock no problem. Haven’t figured out posting pictures so far but may post some later
Thanks for the neat link about window film, may become a future project. For now the goal is just to force the use of destrucive (and noisy) entry. The guy tried charging a kitchen door with a 2’x5’ glass pannel in it once but gave up when it didn’t open immediately and ran away. That was before putting in any secure locks or 3” screws in the jam/hinges. It could have opened with one kick. So he appears to be not very strong, smart or brave about breaking glass. The woman is pretty strong too; you should see her swing around 5gal buckets of sheetrock mud with one arm! There is another locked door upstairs he would have to get through before getting to her bedroom and if she can hear the first breakin, that should give enough time to call police and not be caught asleep if something bad really does happen.
SC-1 keyway will not enter an E keyway, unless you hammer it in or use a vise to press it in I actually always thought it was impossible until I found an employee doing just that--nobody will be able to bump open an E keyway with an SC-1 bump key
billdeserthills wrote:That isn't an 'E' keyway--a real E keyway only allows an E key into it--Have you tried a schlage 'E' key in your lock?
Could OP mean this?
OP is showing a Schlage C cylinder and saying it's an E keyway-- OP doesn't know what he is talking about & apparently neither does the OP's 'locksmith'
Agree with Squelchtone that the glass is a far bigger concern thank the lock cylinder in most cases. Something like 80-90% of break-ins are executed by either destructive entry or taking advantage of an unlocked door/window. From my days as a field tech, I’ve personally seen many full-lite doors like that one end up on the wrong end of a cinder block; the security film mentioned can help.
Feel so stupid. Really confused about what he actually gave me but didn’t think to look at the key that came with the lock! The key says Schlage on one side and has an H on the other side. So guessing this is a Schlage H cyllinder? Also dissassembled the door hardware and took out the lock but there is no letter on the bible, just blank
Or did they just give me a C cylinder and tell me a C key wouldn’t turn it, thinking I would never try it to make me feel good and go away? They are the main locksmith in a town of 40,000 and have been in business for years but I did get the impression they had bigger fish to fry than rummaging through their inventory for a compatible 5 pin lock... :/
Thanks everyone for your patience and help
Here is the lock removed from hardware with included key:
There is another locked door upstairs he would have to get through before getting to her bedroom and if she can hear the first breakin, that should give enough time to call police and not be caught asleep if something bad really does happen.
