Brand Traits. Is it a thing?

[PeterPickedaPepper]

*thoughts of a beginner.
I’ve been wondering if there are certain traits that lock brands have?
For example, when I pick up one of my Masterlock padlocks I feel like I should use more pressure on my tensioner and be more forceful with the picks. When attempting a Lockwood padlock a feel like I try to use light tension and be more precise with my picks.
I’m not sure if I’m correct with my approach but it’s just a hunch.

I’m only attempting cheaper padlocks at this stage. Normal pins. Normal looking keyways etc.

Do you alter your attack depending on the brand?

[CaptHook]

Several brands like master do in fact have manufacturing similarities that seem to fall true across their product line, but you are better off thinking of each lock in front of you as a separate and individual puzzle. Same process every time. Start off light on the wrench, adjust if need be (nothing is binding etc). Same thing on the pick hand. I spend a minute going pin to pin looking for the binding order, versus back to front, or front to back etc; even though some locks like the laminated master padlocks usually seem to allow it.

Now that's not to say that you won't learn some of those similarities in a brand and utilize them if speed is a factor in the need to open the lock. You will, it's inevitable. But sometimes, if you only learn to pick a brand a certain way, you will get stumped if those traits don't fall true on the particular lock you are working on if you don't have a back up plan so to speak.

Hope that makes sense.

[PeterPickedaPepper]

Sure does help. Thanks.

I am trying to think of each lock as an individual puzzle. But I only have access to small selection of locks. Some I can pic easily, now when I’m picking these locks I have an immediate go to strategy for whatever brand or lock I have in my hand. I’m sure it’s developing bad habits.

I have a Lockwood lock with no defining markings on it which I’m struggle with. I’ve raked it a handful of times but never been able to crack it by SPPing. I think I’m struggling with it because it’s not acting like the other Lockwoods I have. I’ll take a breather and a minute away, come back with a new approach!

Thanks CaptHook

[PeterPickedaPepper]

So I finally SPPed (with consistency) this Lockwood! It’s the first 5 pin I’ve been able to SPP. Like you said CaptHook. I treated it like it’s own puzzle. The two other Lockwood locks seemed to have the pins set higher than this one. I used super light tension and only lifted the pins really slightly until I heard a small click. The click sound was much softer with this lock compared to the others I own. In fact this is the first lock that I didn’t need to lift any pins really high. I good lesson was learned.

Now I have another Lockwood, a 219/40. It has a difficult key way and I’m sure it has some spool pins in there somewhere. It’s probably way out of my skill set but it’s the only lock in my small collection I haven’t picked.

Thanks
PeterPickedaPepper

[CaptHook]

So I finally SPPed (with consistency) this Lockwood! It’s the first 5 pin I’ve been able to SPP. Like you said CaptHook. I treated it like it’s own puzzle. The two other Lockwood locks seemed to have the pins set higher than this one. I used super light tension and only lifted the pins really slightly until I heard a small click. The click sound was much softer with this lock compared to the others I own. In fact this is the first lock that I didn’t need to lift any pins really high. I good lesson was learned.

Now I have another Lockwood, a 219/40. It has a difficult key way and I’m sure it has some spool pins in there somewhere. It’s probably way out of my skill set but it’s the only lock in my small collection I haven’t picked.

Thanks
PeterPickedaPepper

Congrats!

I personally hate serrated pins, always have. But they serve a purpose for me. I have an American full of serrated pins that requires the tension to be so light, the wrench would fall out if I turned it upside down. If I have trouble with a lock, I work on the American for a while and go back to the problem lock, and viola, I can better feel what the lock needs in order to be picked.

Whenever I teach someone lockpicking, I start with a master 3 etc. But as soon as they get the feel for the pins setting, switch them to a kwikset deadbolt that has zero spring tension on the plug. The tension needed of course is lighter, and they can start feeling more in the pick hand.

Some folks work mostly off of wrench hand feedback, but I feel its closer to a 50-50 proposition. YMMV

[PeterPickedaPepper]

[/quote]Some folks work mostly off of wrench hand feedback, but I feel its closer to a 50-50 proposition. YMMV [/quote]

Hmm, trying to incorporate this technique while setting spools. Still haven’t worked out my new lock yet. But I’m certain I can feel myself correctly setting one or two spools.

[PeterPickedaPepper]

Well CaptHook you’re quite the teacher! I’ve managed to open my toughest lock to date my Lockwood 219/40 (a few times). Using the feedback from my tensioner hand I managed to feel the security pins moving over the sheer line.
Thanks heaps for your help! Unfortunately I don’t own any other locks!!!
Cheers
PeterPickedaPepper

[CaptHook]

With spools, you are already learning about false sets, and counter rotation. In a false set, the plug will turn slightly and stop in the hollow of the spool. Going through the pins again with light enough tension will reveal counter rotation in at least one pin (plug trying to turn itself backwards slightly). That is the pin that needs set next as a rule. Sometimes you have to lighten up even further to let it set.

If you are too heavy handed, you will never find the pin that needs setting/resetting from the counter rotating plug.

Congrats, and keep at it.

[PeterPickedaPepper]

I’ve managed to SPP an abus 72/40 that I have on my locker at work. I had three attempts at picking it. Opened on the third try. I know this lock to have 6 pins, 5 of which are spools. Definitely felt the counter rotation. Seemed to get more feedback with this lock than I did with the Lockwood. Also I feel more feedback with the tensioner that has a twist in it, compared to my double ended tensioner.

[PeterPickedaPepper]

PPPPPUUMMMPPEEDDDD
Not sure what was harder. Picking the locks or learning how to upload the photos! Im not very computer savvy!

The Abus 72/40.
I watched a few youtube vids on this lock so i knew it had security pins and where they were, which obviously helped.


Lockwood 219/40
This is a laminated lock that i removed the cover from... I haven't found any videos of this one on the net??
-PPAP

[CaptHook]

Congrats!

Those are fun locks, the keyways are pretty tight and sometimes depending on the bitting, you can have 'hurdles' inside there to contend with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u30y2j05Tz0&t

[PeterPickedaPepper]

Congrats!

Those are fun locks, the keyways are pretty tight and sometimes depending on the bitting, you can have 'hurdles' inside there to contend with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u30y2j05Tz0&t

Cool vid, Thanks. I didn't recognise the pic on your computer at first. I was amazed to see the same carpet pattern as i have at work!!
I noticed your thumb on top of the handle, i seem to hold my picks on the side, pinching with my thumb and index. My hands are killing me now!!! ill need to try that technique as i cant stop cramping. A larger handled pick will probably help.

In one of BosnianBills vids he talks about how it is a great training lock so i thought i would focus on it for a while. i have another yellow one exactly the same which i had been practising on. I opened it up and removed a few of the spool pins (normal in1, spool in 3, spool in 6) just so i could learn about the counter pressure on my tension hand and how to properly set a spool. After i got the red lock a few times i opened up the yellow one again and replaced all the drive pins as spools (1-6 all spools). Got it in about 5 mins, knowing exactly whats in there and in what position obviously helps. I'm going to work on it a bit more because i have buy no means "mastered it" but is there anyway i can make it into more of a challenge lock?? Its hard work re-pinning a lock without any proper tools! I loaded all the springs by sliding them down a sowing needle as a guide and spend a lot of time on my hands and knees looking for rogue pins in my living room. But the key turns perfectly!

I've just ordered a Sparrows cut away and the reload kit, but i think the keyway on the ABUS will be a bit more fun.

Thanks again CaptHook

[CaptHook]

No problemo.

I use what I call a "pencil grip" on the picks. I have been picking locks for a long time, and everybody kind of comes up with what is most comfortable for them, and/or what works best for them. To me, this is just natural. Sometimes if I need to pick a deadbolt or kik, the pick lays across the inside bend of my fingers, with my index and thumb on bottom/top of the picks shank. The more you pick, the more you will find what feels right, and works best for you.

If you notice though, I lever the pick on the end/edge of my middle finger. I feel that it gives me a lot more control, and I know exactly how much pressure I am using as I am feeling it on my finger. Some folks lever their picks off of the warding or bottom of the keyways. To me, this is how I imagine people breaking and bending picks. To break a pick, edge first, against my finger would be next to impossible unless there was a weak spot on the pick.

As far as repinning tools, if you don't want to invest in them right now, find objects of similar size to the plugs you are working on. Dowel rods, markers etc will all work as long as the diameters are close. Even stiff card stock rolled up to the correct diameter will work in a pinch.

You don't need to spend big money on pinning tweezers either. any set of long tweezers will work. If you have needle files, you can use either a triangular file, or a round file to file pin notches in the ends.

Pinning mats are nice, but it you go to a carpet store and buy a small remnant of berber carpet, you are set there too. If they have a very small piece, they might not even charge for it.

Lots of ways to skin a cat.

[PeterPickedaPepper]

You don't need to spend big money on pinning tweezers either. any set of long tweezers will work. If you have needle files, you can use either a triangular file, or a round file to file pin notches in the ends.

P

Genius! that was the most frustrating part. I have both those tools Just when i thought the pin was heading down into the cylinder it would shoot out. I would sit there silently, listening for the noise of it hitting and rolling across my timber floor!!!!!!