Lock design for pick resistance

[nagle]

(I'm a noob at this; my picking skills are limited to worn-out pin-tumbler locks. This seems to be a UK board, so it might have more lever lock experts.)

Question on lock design: Almost all picking techniques depend on being able to apply pressure against the gates or pins while picking, so they bind. That's well known. Can a lock be designed where that doesn't happen?

For pin-tumbler locks, it's hard to design around that. Not enough room. But for lever locks, there's no fundamental reason the bolt or sensing component has to ride against the levers all the time.

Suppose we had a lever lock with a shutter that covers the keyhole. Push the shutter aside. This blocks the bolt from pressing against the levers. Insert a key, turn it a half turn, and raise the levers. Nothing is touching the levers or sensing the lever position yet. The turning action also cocks a spring which can release the bolt. Turn the key back to the starting position. The levers all have ratchet teeth and springs, so they stay where set. Remove the key, and the shutter snaps closed. The keyhole is now protected. Now the bolt spring is released and the bolt is allowed to move into the levers. If it falls into the gates, the lock opens. If not, the bolt is blocked by the gates, and the lock won't open. On a failed open, the ratchet teeth release and the levers reset to the starting position, so you can try again.

So you can only manipulate the lock when the shutter is open, and the bolt only touches the levers when the shutter is closed. There's not much information obtainable by picking. Of course, you have to make a shutter mechanism that isn't the weak point in the system.

OK, this seems pretty obvious. You'd think that Chubb or Hobbs would have thought of this in the 1800s. So what's wrong with this approach?

[GWiens2001]

Forever Lock
Bowley Lock

Many locks are designed for pick resistance. Most say so on their packaging. Some even mean it. Master Lock doesn’t mean it.

Gordon

[nagle]

Forever Lock
Bowley Lock

The Bowley, with that U-shaped key, is neat, but it's been picked. It just takes a bump key made from a Bowley key.
The Forever Lock is also pickable with a bump key made from one of its own keys.
Videos of both being picked are on YouTube.

I'm talking about a design where you can't get a tool inside while the levers are in contact with the bolt/sensing bar. Someone must have done that.

[GWiens2001]

Nothing is impossible for someone who is determined enough. Even the EVVA MCS has been picked. By members here. Tools designed by our members have been made for many "unpickable" locks. The Fichet 787 lock has a shutter like you described. But guess what... Falle makes a tool to pick it.

This question has come up many times. If you feel you can design something, go for it!!!

But I don't feel like wasting my time listing locks that for all intents and purposes are reasonably secure just to have you say "It has been done". Just because someone has done it does not mean the lock is completely insecure. There is no such thing as a lock that is completely unpickable/bypassable. If there is a way to open the lock, be it a mechanical key, a card key, RFID, Bluetooth, Remote control, or Buddhist Monk Meditative Telepathy, then there is a way to open the lock in a way the designer did not intend. There are even companies whose primary purpose is creating tools to get into those locks.

Gordon

[nagle]

That's not what I'm asking.

I'm asking whether a very specific lever lock design has been tried. This needs pictures, probably a full 3D model, but someone familiar with the history of lever locks might know offhand.

[GWiens2001]

It has been tried many times. Most specifically by the better keyed lever safe lock manufacturers. Some of our German enthusiasts will no doubt be able to list a number of the excellent locks from their area. Same with the UK. It took a very long time (67 years) before the Brahmah safe lock was able to be proveably picked.

That said, what I said above regarding that any lock that can be opened with some form of intentional method such as a key, card, etcetera, is able to be opened by a method the manufacturer did not intend. Whether we know what that method is, or have the tools and experience necessary to replicate that opening ourselves is a different matter.

Gordon

[demux]

As Gordon says, there will never be a perfect lock, and even if there were, a sufficiently motivated rogue will find other ways to get in. The best bet is to use locks that are "better than average" (e.g. good enough to deter most crimes of opportunity) as part of a more holistic security system which includes other non-lock components. In most cases, your locks don't have to be perfect, only good enough to cause someone to be inclined to move on to a softer target. In cases where someone is specifically targeting you, even a perfect lock won't stop them.

I read a story once (forget where) where an art thief was going after a particular painting that a collector had in his collection. This collector had invested quite a bit in home security: high end locks, strong doors, alarms, cameras, tamper proof hooks, etc. Rather than deal with all that, the thief figured out where approximately the painting was hanging in the home, then used a sawzall to cut out a section of the whole exterior house wall in that area and made off with exterior shingles, framing, insulation, sheetrock, painting and all in one big chunk.

[nagle]

It has been tried many times. Most specifically by the better keyed lever safe lock manufacturers. Some of our German enthusiasts will no doubt be able to list a number of the excellent locks from their area. Same with the UK.

Yes, a keyed safe lock is the most likely application. I've seen a safe combination lock where the lever nose doesn't drop and touch the disks until you turn the handle, and if you do that too soon, you have to start over. That's why I was thinking of a similar mechanism for a keyed lock. Never seen one, though. Anybody?

[jwrm22]

There have been a couple topics like this every few months. It's worth a search, just use keywords like bowley, forever lock etc.
Both the methods you described defeating each are on the old models. The locks have been improved and are defeated again.
It'll be an forever cat and mouse. It makes sense to use a 1" lock when a tywrap would suffice.

At this moment Kromer protector, while picked is still one of the hardest locks out there.
Another one is a German safe lock (I can't remember the name) that takes your key, unlocks the lock and spits out the key.

For many of us we think of a lock and how it functions but more interestingly is figuring out what specific problem a particular lock solves.
Many locks are not random, every little detail is on purpose. For some it might be the tools available for others have odd requirements.
For instance. How do you make a bomb proof lock? Or how do you make a lock reliable in harsh environments?

At this moment I would bet on a mechanical lock with electronics added in. For instance Abloy Protec2 with CLIQ.