Lock Picks Legal

[airy52]

My parents think that it is not legal to own lock picks in the state of Oregon. I would like to know if it is and if it is please post your source or link so that i can prove it to them. Thanks in advance.
Airy 52

[Exodus5000]

There's already a post on this.
viewtopic.php?t=2850&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45

In line 2 of the printed bill, after 'detection' insert ';
amending ORS 164.225, 164.235 and section 19, chapter 666, Oregon
Laws 2001'. Delete lines 4 through 22 and insert:

SECTION 1. ORS 164.235 is amended to read:
(1) A person commits the crime of possession of burglar's tools if the person possesses any burglar tool with the intent to use the tool or knowing that some person intends to use the tool to commit or facilitate a forcible entry into premises or theft by a physical taking - ... a burglary tool or theft device if the person possesses a burglary tool or theft device and the person:

(a) Intends to use the tool or device to commit or facilitate a forcible entry into premises or a theft by a physical taking; or

(b) Knows that another person intends to use the tool or device to commit or facilitate a forcible entry into premises or a theft by a physical taking.

(2) Burglar tool ... For purposes of this section, ' burglary tool or theft device' ... means an acetylene torch, electric arc, burning bar, thermal lance, oxygen lance or other similar device capable of burning through steel, concrete or other solid material, or nitroglycerine, dynamite, gunpowder or any other explosive, tool, instrument or other article adapted or designed for committing or facilitating a forcible entry into
premises or theft by a physical taking.

(3) Possession of burglar's tools ... a burglary tool or theft device is a Class A misdemeanor.

SECTION 2 ORS 164.225 is amended to read:
(1) A person commits the crime of burglary in the first degree if the person violates ORS 164.215 and the building is a dwelling, or if in effecting entry or while in a building or in immediate flight therefrom the person:

(a) Is armed with a burglar's tool (burglary tool or theft device) as defined in ORS 164.235 or a deadly weapon; or

(b) Causes or attempts to cause physical injury to any
person; or

(c) Uses or threatens to use a dangerous weapon.

(2) Burglary in the first degree is a Class A felony.



I bolded where the definition gets hazy. If you have intent to commit a crime with them, then they are illegal. Intent can be established if you take them out of your house probably, although that varies state to state. This would lead you to believe that if you didn't have intent on commiting a crime it would be ok. I would call either a lawyer (might cost money though) or city hall. Calling your police station would probably be a bad idea.

[Vodka1881]

Actually calling your police station would not be a bad idea. They are very helpful in telling you the laws. Not only of your state but your county to. If you call them and tell you where looking into buying a lockpick set, and wanted to make sure they wern't illegal, they won't do any thing.

[DrEmmerich]

It all comes down to the cop. As some one said in another thread they may just say they are illegal so they don't have to deal with you in the future, or the may they are illegal because they aren't sure and don't want to appear stupid or have it come back to them if you get into trouble over it. If they say they are legal, and it's actually not, you still don't have a leg to stand on. The lawyer is a far better idea on the whole.

I know about a week ago here you could call and ask a lawyer any questions for 15 mins for free as it was some special day. Unfortunatly it's a annual thing though, so you'll have to wait another year.

[jjrythem]

someone should findout where picks are legal or not and post like a huge list...

n just curious i have here a site n i aint the smart to no what its saying but does this mean it's illegal in New York?
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dca/html/062.html

[jjrythem]

like does

A person must have a Locksmith license to repair, service, install, inspect, and open and close locks by mechanical means

include your own locks that you bought which is ur property?

[rayman452]

Yes, it really does depend on the cop. When I went asking the police station about air rifles with my dad, they had no frigging clue. I had already owned two, but wanted to get a newer one(the ones I have are my dads, when he was 14, so around 30 years old...) with a scope. MY dad called the bylaw office, whom said it was ok, a trip down to the poliece station was confusing. One female cop said its ok, she shoots in her backyard, the other guy said no way, its illegal, and the third sorta said, go ask the bilaw officer. So we go to the bilaw officer in the building, and he goes to the front desk, the other guys have scrambled now, and pulls out the bilaw book from under the desk. He baisicall said that its a weapon, and its not aloud, but we got a rifle anyways, considering no one really knew. The cops dont really know too much about guns, I had to remind them that a firearm under 450 fps does not require a FAC, so I don't think they will mind about lockpicks. IF your a teen, the will probally think your just screwing around, and that you cant really pick locks like those friends we all have.

Just dont get caught...

[vector40]

The police are really not the people to ask about the law, guys. Ask your lawyer, or the attorney general's office.

[TOWCH]

I live in Oregon and I've never had a cop give me trouble about it. That said, I know 2 people who have had picks confiscated. In both those cases, I don't really think it was a horrible abuse of power. If you're not doing anything wrong with them, then you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

[donfaillo]

Actually, it is perfectly legal to own and possess locksmithing tools in the state of Oregon. There are exceptions to every rule, however. In the court system it comes down to 'proof beyond a reasonable doubt', but for a police officer to make an arrest, they merely need 'probable cause'. In any event, there usually must be an alleged victim.
For example, if you are pulled over by the police while driving your car for going 37-mph in a 30-mph zone and the officer happens to see a set of lockpicks laying in your passenger seat, he can do absolutely nothing. But if that officer sees you dressed in all black clothing, wearing a pair of gloves, walking towards a business at two o'clock in the morning, with a backpack full of lockpicks and bolt cutters, then the chances are pretty good that you are going to be arrested for possession of burglar's tools.
Most people do not know their rights when dealing with police officers. First of all, a police officer must have probable cause to stop you and demand your identification. Based upon what he has witnessed, he must have probable cause to believe that a crime, infraction or traffic violation has occurred. Occasionally, they can use the excuse of 'suspicious' activity to merit a stop. They can also claim that you fit the description of someone they are looking for, but if you investigate it, it actually has to be logged in their computers that they were looking for someone who actually did fit your description. If you are walking on foot, a police officer has the right to stop his car, to approach you and talk to you. Unless he has his lights on and it's an official stop though, you are not required to acknowledge him and can keep on walking. You are not required to give your identification to a police officer unless you are officially being stopped, although they will often ask for it just to see if they can run it by you voluntarily giving it to them.
If you have a set of lockpicks and are going to be walking around, my advice would be to carry those lockpicks in a backpack, to zip that backpack shut, and then to put a very small padlock through the zippers so that it is locked shut. This will save you an awful lot of grief and trouble. When a police officer stops you on foot, they have a basic right to pat you down for their own safety. This patting down means going through anything on your possession that you have instant access to. If you have a backpack, they may want to look through it. Their excuse will be that for all they know, you may have a gun in your backpack, and could open it, draw the gun out and shoot them. If that backpack is padlocked shut, however, you do not have instant access to it and they are not allowed to look through it without a warrant.
Calling the police department to ask them probably isn't the best idea and I'll tell you why. The receptionists and dispatchers typically don't know the laws. The best they can do is to take down your name and number and have an officer call you back. Depending on the type of officer you're dealing with, if you want to know about the legality of lockpicks, he's either going to assume that you already have them or that you want to get them, and then he's going to be wondering why. If he's got your name and number already, you may want to assume that he's going to do a little homework on you, or he'll at least make a note of his conversation with you.
The bottom line is that 'out of sight' is 'out of mind'. If you have them and don't want any problems or to be harrassed, I suggest you don't let people know you have them. And if you're going to carry them around on your person, I suggest making sure you are wearing bright colored clothing and it's during the middle of the day.

[zekeo]

donfaillo: your post is for the most part correct. A few corrections, however. To stop you and chat the police only need "articulatable suspicion" which is a lower standard than probable cause. With probable cause the police CAN search your belongings--however, they need to obtain a warrant. For other searches the "plain sight doctrine" applies. If they can see it, they can search it. In other words if you have a pick hanging out of your backpack or sitting in the back seat of your car, it's fair game. However, they cannot open anything (bag, backpack, briefcase, etc)

The other category of legal search is consented searches. They can do whatever they want if you agree to it. The police are also allowed to lie and mislead to get you to consent. They can say somthing like "I'm going to have to search your backpack, OK?" When in doubt, even when you're not sure if the police have the authority to do the search, say "I do not consent to this search."

Remember, you also have the right to remain silent at all times. If the police stop you for questioning, you always have to right to ask "am I under arrest?" If they say no you have the right to walk away.

Lastly, if the police do put you under arrest (or even if they don't and they begin questioning you) ASK FOR A LAWYER. (Even if you don't have one). They have to stop interrogating you at this point. Even if you're innocent (ESPECIALLY if you're innocent), the police aren't your friend. It's their job to make arrests and convictions.

The law is not absolute; in the Oregon case (and many states have similar laws) it would be up to a jury to decide whether you have the intent to commit a crime. I think a good rule of thumb for bringing pics into public is to have a practice lock (preferably a cutaway) in the same pocket. This should be enough to establish a legal reason for having the picks and create "reasonable doubt" that you are going to commit a crime.

[zekeo]

Of course, all of this applies only to US law...

[Chrispy]

Police in Australia have unbelievable powers. They can basically do what they please.

Not to mention that Australia is the most heavily legislated country in the world. Strict laws, strict customs, strict police. I long to live in the USA.....

[cracksman]

Chrispy wrote:

Police in Australia have unbelievable powers.

Can they fly

[Chrispy]

Chrispy wrote:

Police in Australia have unbelievable powers.

Can they fly

Not only can they fly (rocket backpacks), they have x-ray vision and can hear a pin click into place from 100 metres.