rekeying snafu

[behr]

hi,

im a green horn to lockpicking, and only got interested in it when i read an article on howstuffworks.com about it. in anycase, i ran up to my local ace the other day, got some deadbolts, came home and took them apart to learn more. heres where my problem/question is.

i was rekeying(or trying to) one of the deadbolts i bought to fit my house key, so i removed the top pins and was looking at them and then, caught up in the moment my stupid self turned the key back in the locked position(without top pins installed). as soon as i did that i heard an awful *snick* and realized what i had done. so i started twisting the chamber forcefully, determined to get the bottom pins so the whole thing wouldnt go to waste. long story short, im now down one pratice lock while up ten pins(two secruity ones too!! WOHOO!! )

i was wondering though, if i had picks(which are on their way) i should be able to open the lock with only the bottom pins and springs, right? i mean, in theory isnt it the same as picking a lock with top pins, bottom pins, and springs? in this case though, instead of matching the top pins to the shear line, i would just have to match the bottom pins to the shear line. am i correct in my reasonings?

[stick]

Theoretically, if the springs were really firm, yes. But if you were to try to put tension on it, you'd probably just ruin the springs.

[stick]

Forgot to add this. If you could put tension on the cylinder without ruining the springs, you could probably open the lock with any flat piece of metal. Odds are, all your bottom pins are the same length.

[behr]

thats what i ended up doing:) i took the deadbolt, mounted it to the lock and started turning the plug around and around, took me about twenty minutes, but in the end i got all the springs out of the lock...so now its completely useless, but i beat it!!!

[MrB]

OK, I'm really confused about what you did here. Let's sort out the names for things:

In a US-style deadbolt, the pins are above the key. So working downwards from the top, you first have the spring, then the driver pin, then the key pin.

Now, what did you do? You perhaps took out the plug containing the key pins using a plug follower, so the driver pins and springs remained in place? Then you tipped the key pins out of the plug, and with the plug empty you put it back in the shell and turned it upright, so the driver pins dropped down into the plug?

Assuming that was the case, you could have recovered using lock picks. You would need a deep hook, and you would push each of the driver pins back up into the shell while putting gentle tension on the plug. You would have to do it in the right order of binding, and it would be a bit like picking a lock normally except the springs would act like really weird serrated security pins.

Otherwise, not having lock picks, you might have been able to use a miniature screwdriver to pick the driver pin/spring shear line until the plug turned and then pulled the plug back out, being careful to catch the flying springs.

Sadly, brute force is the first resort of the impatient. Personally, if I bought a nice shiny lock for $12 or so and then proceeded to wreck it, I would be sad.

[Mad Mick]

If the rear of the lock was still accessible, using a deep hook, as suggested by MrB, to push the drivers above the shear line, then sliding a shim in could have been another option without wrecking anything.

[vector40]

Or a comb pick... if you happen to have one.

The problem, obviously, is that applying tension will make it reeeaaally easy to bork your springs, so it might be quite a challenge to "set" all of the pins one by one without trashing the springs.

[Mad Mick]

Sorry. Should have mentioned that tension isn't needed when shimming...

[MrB]

Yes, good point on the shimming. I didn't think of doing it that way.

[behr]

MrB said: Sadly, brute force is the first resort of the impatient.

well, in my case it was the first resort of stupidity. Anyway, what you described isnt what i did, but the end result is the same.

i acted just as you would if you were rekeying a lock. i had the lock(just the plug and housing with a little bit of the cam sticking out) in the position so that the bottom pins(key pins) fell out.

at this point i have a key in the lock with no bottom pins(key pins), but the key is not in the upright position.

i then turn the key to the upright position, and the top pins(driver pins), forced by the springs, shoot down to where the bottom pins(key pins) used to be.

reading back over your post, i think the only part where i deviated from your process is that i didnt remove the plug, i kept it in the housing.

[MrB]

Ah, it's only in some locks that the key pins fall out when you turn the key. In most cases you actually have to remove the plug to get at the pins. To stop the springs and driver pins coming free when you do that, you normally push the plug out with a cylindrical plug follower from behind. The plug comes out and the follower holds everything in place.

[HeadHunterCEO]

or you could have just removed the spring caps and dumped the entire lock then reassembled correctly

[vector40]

Assuming it's removable, of course.

[HeadHunterCEO]

Assuming it's removable, of course.

so far the only locks i have ever seen where you could not remove the caps without making a mess were those crappy defiant locks.

[digital_blue]

I have a weiser deadbolt that you can not remove the pins out the top of the chamber.

db