Question for locksmiths

[licehunter2]

Hi there. I was wondering what do professional lockies do when they are faced with a lock they can't open? Here is the following scenario, by way of example:

Say I come back home from a big night out and find that I have locked myself out of my flat. There is a sticker advertising a 24/7 locksmithing service on the doorframe so I pull out my mobile and give you a call. Because I live in this remote little village, you have to drive 40km in the middle of a snowstorm to reach my place. You finally arrive and, assuming that in the meanwhile I haven't frozen myself to death waiting outside, you get to work on my fairly ordinary building entrance lock. Get that dusted and take the lift upstairs with me where you find this super-duper lock protecting my front door, which you definitely can't defeat. Of course, after you've let me in, I will not want to leave my door wide open, so you need to take that into account if you're going to use destructive methods. Assume you do not have a same model replacement lock in your van. How do you proceed?

Thanks. I'm just curious and thought that posting here would be a better option than getting sh*tfaced next Saturday night and flushing my key down the pub toilet at the end of it before heading back home.

[E-Mind]

Since you have such a high security lock, you probably know the brand - assuming the locksmith is professional enough - he would probably bring with him that type of lock and just rekey it to fit your existing key and drill-open the locked lock...

just my uneducated thoughts...

[Pickety]

Im not exactly a professional lockie, just an apprentice. But i do take house calls, so lets see if i get this right...

To answer your question, it seems that a means of destructive entry would more than likely be used in this scenario. Judging by your post, i assume you live in an apartment or hotel or something? If that is that case, then go to the front desk and ask for another key , if that is not an option then (i think) a front door really is the only option of entry in an apartment/hotel, etc..

Im going to assume that the lock is a deadbolt, since almost all key-in-knobs are easy as hell. I would use a drill to drill though the pins in the lock hoping that works. If not, then i would probably use a sort of jigsaw drill to cut off the bolt that is locking the door. If that doesnt work, i guess im gonna either call my boss, or climb up the side of your building to get in through the window

[acl]

Licehunter, blimey theres a question. Firstly those on this site that know me know that im not adverse to the odd night on the sauce but no matter how trousered i get i have never had any urge to deposit my keys down the kharzi.You must get yourself really hammered what are you drinking meths!?
Youre next mistake" say i come home after a big night" simple answer to this one ,DONT GO HOME.
Seriously though(and im not sure you were looking for a serious answer!) most professional locksmiths shouldnt really have to many problems gaining entry to whatevers put in front of them and most should have pretty much any lock that would need to be replaced.On the odd occasion that a lock couldnt be replaced i would fit an extra mortice deadlock to a wooden door if for instance there was a Banham and i was out of replacement cylinders.UPVC door:and everyone should have some kind of cylinder as a temporary replacement at least.
Hope this kind of makes sense as ive had a few too many already.
Now where did i put those bloody keys...........
Andy

[n2oah]

most professional locksmiths shouldnt really have to many problems gaining entry to whatevers put in front of them and most should have pretty much any lock that would need to be replaced

Not so fast there. I have seen locksmiths with many years under their belts cry at the sight of a medeco or abloy. There aren't that many who do high security locks (at least in my town).

[acl]

n2oah, granted i should have put the emphasis on"shouldnt" have too many problems ! Medecos are pretty rare this side of the pond but Abloys can be a but even if they have to be opened distructively most should have some kind of replacement.
Andy

[Varjeal]

#1. Before you place that call to me in the middle of the night/early morning, you had better sound very coherant, because if you don't, I'm going to suggest you take a taxi and stay at a friends place for the night and call me in the morning. Prank calls aren't funny as it is, and one's in a snowstorm can be life threatening.

#2. Assuming you have successfully fooled me enough to have me drive 40k in the middle of a snowstorm to reach your place (provided some sort of ID) and open the main door lock, and I see the "super-duper" lock on your front door, here's what I do:

a.) First assess the type of high security lock that you have.
b.) Assess the door and frame the lock interacts with (obviously examining for bypass opportunities).
c.) Inform you that there is no such thing as "definitely can't defeat".
d.) I then inform you whether I have the same brand of high security lock, and if not, talk you into my superior brand of high security lock.
e.) If picking the lock is beyond my skill ability, and ND bypass not reasonable, then the 18V rotary pick tool comes out.
f.) Once entry is gained and ID confirmed, said H.S. lock is replaced with mine. A bill is exchanged for payment, your informed to provide keys to your building owner per reg's, and I go home tired and happy.

There is not a lock on the planet that I'm aware of that is drill-proof.

P.S. Assuming you live in apartment building and not a condo that you actually own, then I will most likely provide a cheap (probably used) deadbolt to fill the void of the H.S. lock and advise you to contact your building owner for a replacement (which you will have to pay for since you didn't just phone the landlord for a key) lock. Thus your secured for the evening.

[licehunter2]

OP here -- thanks for your answers.

Let me clarify that the scenario I posed above is a purely hypotetical one, although its details are inspired on a building near mine which is as I describe: low sec front doors, better locks on apartment doors, and out-of-town locksmith sticker on front door. It was the sight of this sticker (and the fact that they're unusual around here as this is only a small village and relatively inaccessible) which inspired my question.

In reality, in that building there would be no need to defeat the front door as it has an electric lock--all you need to do is call your neighbour to buzz you in. Subsequent access to the flat by the owner (once sober, preferably) would be either a matter of borrowing a Universal Key (aka cordless drill) from said neighbour or abseil from the roof and enter through the balcony (as a climber that's what I would do anyway )

For my own flat, I personally opted for leaving a key with a trusted neighbour, another with my girlfriend, and another with my landlord, so my frequent lockouts are only a very minor annoyance. And no, ACL, I do not customarily flush my keys down the bog. That would have been done out of scientific necessity only in case I needed to run a live test of the scenario above

However, the serious part of the original question is: what do you do when faced with a lock you can't defeat? Also, what do less skilled locksmiths do when faced with relatively ordinary locks they can't defeat? Do they call someone else? Do they drill/saw/tear down the door? Do they just give up and walk away?

[digital_blue]

I think the answer you are looking for is the drill. That seems to be the most common destructive approach when NDE fails, or in the case of some locksmiths, when they just couldn't be bothered to do the job right. But we don't have any of those guys here. And please, for the love of all that is good, if you are one of those guys... don't say so here.

db

[TOWCH]

#1. Before you place that call to me in the middle of the night/early morning, you had better sound very coherant, because if you don't, I'm going to suggest you take a taxi and stay at a friends place for the night and call me in the morning. Prank calls aren't funny as it is, and one's in a snowstorm can be life threatening.

#2. Assuming you have successfully fooled me enough to have me drive 40k in the middle of a snowstorm to reach your place (provided some sort of ID) and open the main door lock, and I see the "super-duper" lock on your front door, here's what I do:

a.) First assess the type of high security lock that you have.
b.) Assess the door and frame the lock interacts with (obviously examining for bypass opportunities).
c.) Inform you that there is no such thing as "definitely can't defeat".
d.) I then inform you whether I have the same brand of high security lock, and if not, talk you into my superior brand of high security lock.
e.) If picking the lock is beyond my skill ability, and ND bypass not reasonable, then the 18V rotary pick tool comes out.
f.) Once entry is gained and ID confirmed, said H.S. lock is replaced with mine. A bill is exchanged for payment, your informed to provide keys to your building owner per reg's, and I go home tired and happy.

There is not a lock on the planet that I'm aware of that is drill-proof.

P.S. Assuming you live in apartment building and not a condo that you actually own, then I will most likely provide a cheap (probably used) deadbolt to fill the void of the H.S. lock and advise you to contact your building owner for a replacement (which you will have to pay for since you didn't just phone the landlord for a key) lock. Thus your secured for the evening.

How do you deal with hardplate inserts? Abrassive tool? Hardplate bits?

[Chrispy]

There is not a lock on the planet that I'm aware of that is drill-proof.

Either above or below the bottom pins (and drill plates ), one can always drill a lock. I think the only locks you can't drill are some safe locks with glass relocking plates (a story for another thread.... )

All in all, that was a excellent post Varjeal. If I ever move to Canada and get locked out... I'm calling you. Sober, of course.....

[Buggs41]

For the love of God, and all his creatures.

Please stop all the "hypothetical" what-if post's!

This skill, as with life, is not part of a 'reality show.'

Turn off the tube. And live life a little bit.

[acl]

You can still drill these safelocks.What happens after youve done so is a different matter!

[TOWCH]

Real safe techs trigger relockers intentionally for the added challenge.

[HeadHunterCEO]

most people with high sec locks have them because a lockie sold it to them.

most lockies who sell high sec locks have the biting, your name and etc
in the interest of key control

if you lost your high sec key you would most likely call the smith who installed it and they have the biting.