American pin locks compared to european.

[Dimmy Locks]

Here's a daft query.
anyone in UK got any comonlly used US locks I could try out?
Reason I'm asking is my boss goes to the States every year, and on his last visit someone locked themselves out of their hotel room. a locksmith was called who opend up his bag of "tricks" and reached for his dremel drill. My boss walked upto the door and jiggled it open within a couple of seconds. He said the keyway was big enough to ride a horse through, ( the boss is small some I'm guessing he meant a pony). Anyway, the locksmith offered him a job on the spot much to the bosses amusement. The hotel owner was shocked and asked if the boss would try another suite.. apparently he opened all but 1 door with his jigglers.
Are US style pin locks REALLY that poor? Or was it just that this hotel just had very old locks fitted?
I've seen a set of US picks and they were far too big to effectively attempt in a UK rim cylinder.
BTW dont ask me why he took not only his jigglers but his pick set on holiday, when I asked him he simply replied " well if you dont try, you never know". ( I'm just glad he doesnt own an UZI) lol.

[digital_blue]

Many North American locks do indeed have muck larger and less restrictive keyways making them easier to pick. Having said that, if your boss was able to "jiggle" open all these locks, I can only think he's either got mad skills, or they were the poorest of the poor of NA locks.

The difference in locks is, as you noticed, evidenced by the comparible difference in the size of standard North American picks versus the Euro "slimline" picks. But in our defence, not all NA locks are total crap. We do have some pretty good Schlage locks such as the Primus, and of course, our ever popular Medeco locks. I'd bet my morning donut that your boss wouldn't have been jiggling open any Medecos.

db

[digital_blue]

Hey, just another thought.... it's sad that this US locksmith reached for the drill *first*. Especially considering they were likely very easy locks.

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[Dimmy Locks]

Hey, just another thought.... it's sad that this US locksmith reached for the drill *first*. Especially considering they were likely very easy locks.

db

Only repeating it as it was told to me But as you mentioned Medeco I thought i'd check out their bog standard Rim cylinder and compare its keyway with a bog standard UK one. heres what I came up with:-
http://www.medeco.com/products/pdfs/200 ... atalog.pdf rim cylinders on page 11. compare the keyway with a bog standard UK style rim cylinder such as ERA http://www.kent-locksmiths.co.uk/images ... alogue.pdf page18.

looking at the Medeco closely, i can see it poosible that UK micro-jigglers would fit and move within that keyway.
the Medeco keyway appears to be almost twice the width of the UK version.. I find that really rather worrying for you Americans.
Please don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking anyone here, am just so surprised at the amount of access there appears on a run of the mill rim cylinder keyway over there. Anyone of our Aussies have a bog standard rim cylinder picture I can take a look at, would be interesting to see if yours compares closer to the USA or to Europe.

[digital_blue]

There's nothing special about the Medeco keyways. That wasn't really the point. The Medeco locking mechanism is what makes it special, and is the reason I say your boss would have had a tough time jiggling a Medeco open. Medeco uses a rotating pin system with a sidebar that makes it a rather difficult (or in my case impossible ) pick.

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[Dimmy Locks]

Fair comment, on the inner workings of the Medeco rim cylinder,.
I have no idea what the make or type of lock the boss was refering to, but was still interesting to note the large keyway compared to the UK/European models.
Just out of interest, I've looked around for pictures of US padlocks and they too appear to have similar sized keyways. Am I right in thinking this, and if so, do they have any secondary line of defense such as this bar your Medeco's have? Or do they rely on mushroom pins etc.
Also, seeing as the keyways are wider its fair to asume the keys are that much bigger too, and the pin bungs on the Medeco look like missile silos so am guessing the pins are also a fair good size.
Would still love to get my hands on some US locks to play with though if any UK members happen to have any.

[digital_blue]

I don't know that it's the actual "size" of the keyway that's as relevant so much as the over lack of difficult warding that makes the NA locks what they are. A good many padlocks tend to have smaller keyways and smaller keys, but I would say your runn of the mill padlock offers little pick resistence other than security pins. Spools are quite common. There are, of course, high security padlocks such as the Medeco.

The Medeco pins are actually chisel shaped at the bottom. The keys have corresponding angled cuts which allow for the appropriate rotation of the pins to align gates (or grooves) in the pins to align with a sidebar mechanism.

So, I suppose the point is that though we have some adequate and effective high security solutions, a typical non-high-security lock in NA is probably easier to pick than its equivelant counterpart in the UK, mostly due to less restrictive keyways.

There are plenty of opportunites to purchase NA locks on Ebay, though I'd be open to considering some trades because I've been looking for an opportunity to get ahold of some of the more restrictive Euro cylinders. PM me if you're interested.

Hope this clears it up.

[Chucklz]

In my part of the US, the most common lock is the Kwikset key in knob, followed by the Kwikset deadbolt, then Schlage hardware. Kwikset has recently started making what appears to be better quality hardware, but the old hardware is what is still most common in my area. I hope you can secure one of these KIK locks.... the whole thing. I am positive you will be amazed at their "quality". The Union two lever sitting on my desk now is about a lightyear more secure.

[Varjeal]

To your original story, your boss mentioned that the locks were on a hotel. This means there's about a 99% chance that those locks included masterpins, thus adding additional shearlines to the lock making it much more easier to pick by hand. Depending on the hotel itself, the locks may have also been quite worn...I'm not making excuses, just saying.


And if that lockie reached for a drill first before even trying pick tools then he's a moron.

[devildog]

There's probably plenty of people on here who would be up for a trade or two; and I'm sure there's a few that would be nice enough to just send you some they don't want anymore if you'll foot the bill for the postage.

I'd definately be up for a trade for almost ANY type of decent lever lock that I could play with, and I've got a spare Schlage Grade 2 Residential deadbolt sitting around I'll shoot to ya if you'll pay for the postage.