Difference in Schlage models

[23skidoo]

DB There is someone in my area who is installing Primus cylinders that match my sidebar code and the keys are not stamped with a dealer #.I am tracking down who it is and I plan on turning it over to my distributer, who in turn should contact Schlage about it. Will let you know what happens if you wish

I'm pretty curious myself! Is there anyway to find the dealer from the code stamped on the key? These particular keys did have that code.

[maxxed]

Don't sell youeself too cheap. It degrades the entire market, everyone should be in the same price range. You will realize this the day your competitor drives past in a new Corvette and you cann't afford to put gas in your scooter!

Oh, I'm not too cheap. Let's just call it competitive pricing.

I thought like that too. Trust me, you will work too hard for too little money and often for the customers your competetors don't want. Why don't they want them? Cause they are too cheap,don't pay bills on time if at all.. You want loyal customers who pay you for your knowledge and ability.

[maxxed]

DB There is someone in my area who is installing Primus cylinders that match my sidebar code and the keys are not stamped with a dealer #.I am tracking down who it is and I plan on turning it over to my distributer, who in turn should contact Schlage about it. Will let you know what happens if you wish

I'm pretty curious myself! Is there anyway to find the dealer from the code stamped on the key? These particular keys did have that code.

With Pimus all keys are to be stamped with a dealer #. The dealer can then stamp a system # and a key # if they choose, and will if they are smart. The dealer # should be listed with the factory, I doubt that they will give out that info.
I would just call the other lockies and ask, it may be a good opportunityto make an alliance with someone who has tools and knowledge you don't. ( i'm a strong believer in networking my business ) share and everyone wins!

[23skidoo]

With Pimus all keys are to be stamped with a dealer #. The dealer can then stamp a system # and a key # if they choose, and will if they are smart. The dealer # should be listed with the factory, I doubt that they will give out that info.
I would just call the other lockies and ask, it may be a good opportunityto make an alliance with someone who has tools and knowledge you don't. ( i'm a strong believer in networking my business ) share and everyone wins!

I find it odd that they wouldn't give out that info. I think it would make it easier for the customer to find the dealer if the customer is unsure, like in mine and my customers case. I don't see the need for secrecy. It doesn't seem to impose on anything security related.

Now, what if the dealer assigned that particular sidebar no longer exists? Would all work have to go through Schlage or would it be Mafia-like action where once that boss/owner is gone someone can take over their work, sort of a free-for-all?

[keysman]

Please note:
I am not an attorney. Any information presented here is solely the opinion of the author, PLEASE check with legal counsel be making a decision based on the included information

It is illegal for you to recut that key period.

Zeke, There is a contract with schlage ( IR) for DEALERS. An individual can do what ever they want, at least in USA (for a while anyway)

Contract = Civil, LAW = Criminal

...
think dd has a point about legally biding contracts though, but even that would fall under contract law, so it's another matter altogether. To the best of my knowledge, the Criminal Code of Canada has no legislation pertaining to protected keyways, nor have I ever heard of any provincial or even municipal laws that would prohibit it.

NYC has some pretty strict laws pertaining to DND as does California (or they used to). Now weather or not that law is in anyway enforceable is a matter of debate.

There is someone in my area who is installing Primus cylinders that match my sidebar code and the keys are not stamped with a dealer #.I am tracking down who it is and I plan on turning it over to my distributor, who in turn should contact Schlage about it. Will let you know what happens if you wish

The keys can be milled from some Schlage blanks ( forgot which ones), the patent ran out on Primus Classic last year, replaced by Primus Everest so there may be some "blanks" available if you have a sidewinder machine you can copy a sidebar cuts.

[zeke79]

I stand corrected I guess. I was under impression that the person who bought the rights for a certain area owned all rights to "modify" or "cut" keys. I looked at it kind of like software. You can install the system and use as you like but not modify the keys (or for the sake of my example of software modify the code which you never bought the rights to do).

[devildog]

I'm currently working on modifying a plain schlage blank to work in my primus, this is in the public forums so I won't say which blank it is, but if you've got a primus lock and some schlage keys, it shouldn't be hard to figure out. It takes very little modification and can be done with small hand files, hobby type ones, if you're careful.

[zeke79]

23skidoo,

In all my wisdom I fogot one important factor that keysman pointed out. If this lock is in fact a standard Primus and not a Primus Everest then you are able recut it I think as the patent is in fact expired on this system. The only thing holding you back would be ethical issues behind the DND stamp on the key which in fact you are not actually duplicating them anyways so I see no problems there. I apologize for the confusion . It was a fun conversation anyway .

[23skidoo]

23skidoo,

In all my wisdom I fogot one important factor that keysman pointed out. If this lock is in fact a standard Primus and not a Primus Everest then you are able recut it I think as the patent is in fact expired on this system. The only thing holding you back would be ethical issues behind the DND stamp on the key which in fact you are not actually duplicating them anyways so I see no problems there. I apologize for the confusion . It was a fun conversation anyway .

These locks were the Primus model. It was stamped on the front of the cylinder.

I recently read a printout on California locksmith laws about DND keys, saying we are to inform people that, in basic terms, doesn't mean anything and can be copied without any problems. With that, I was under the impression that any keys can be legally duped with the exception of Governmental keys, like USPS or military and the restricted blanks can't be copied only due to the fact that I wasn't authorized with the manufaturer and had no means to obtain the blanks. As you wrote, there is an ethical side, which is a bit different than the legal side.

If someone can find information stating otherwise (california-specific), I would really like to hear about it. I'll find my source around the 'net and post a link a little bit later (work's calling right now.)

[keysman]

I recently read a printout on California locksmith laws about DND keys, saying we are to inform people that, in basic terms, doesn't mean anything and can be copied without any problems. With that, I was under the impression that any keys can be legally duped with the exception of Governmental keys, like USPS or military and the restricted blanks can't be copied only due to the fact that I wasn't authorized with the manufaturer and had no means to obtain the blanks. As you wrote, there is an ethical side, which is a bit different than the legal side.

If someone can find information stating otherwise (california-specific), I would really like to hear about it. I'll find my source around the 'net and post a link a little bit later (work's calling right now.)

I looked on the web for California law and found info on making car keys but NOTHING on DND.

I did my apprenticeship in California long before they had a LS license law.
Part of that apprenticeship sponsored by California Locksmith Assn was to take quarterly tests. One part dealt with local, state ,and federal laws as they related to the locksmith trade .
If I remember correctly ( and it has been a long time) all lockshops were required to keep a log of DNDs cut or duplicated with much the same info that is required for originating a car key today.

So I stand corrected .. There is NO restriction Today ( that I could find) for duplicating a DND in California.

[23skidoo]

Thank you Keysman and Zeke79. I appreciate you both for taking the time to allow me to pick your brains (no pun intended. Better to pick your brain than your front door, hmm?) I've actually learned a lot from this thread, as well as the other threads oozing with knowledge.

And yes. It has been a fun conversation.