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Help On My First Lock

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

Help On My First Lock

Postby Kite » 27 Aug 2008 15:36

Ok I up a Master 140 for my first lock because it was the only one I could afford at the time. Did I start with something to hard? Because after two weeks of trying I still can't get it. Any advice would be very helpful thank you.
Kite
 
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Joined: 22 Aug 2008 22:01

Postby Urbex » 27 Aug 2008 15:42

I'm pretty sure the 140 has security pins, if I'm not mistaken.

Without a doubt you started too hard. I would go to your local hardware store and pick up a cheap Kwikset deadbolt, or a lower end Master padlock.
Urbex
 
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Postby l618 » 27 Aug 2008 16:23

Master 140 is pretty tough to start out with since it has securities. If you don't want to get frustrated too much, get a master #3 and start with that..
l618
 
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Postby ToolyMcgee » 27 Aug 2008 18:50

All of my 140's have at least two spool pins. They are harder than your standard master no1 or no3, but not by much and it certainly isn't unthinkable that you could pop this little sucker. Put light tension on the plug from the TOP of the keyway in front of the first pin. Start from the first binding pin, lift it to the first set then slightly back off tension and lift it more. Serrated pins in these have shallow grooves so the sets are going to be difficult to tell from real set pins, but I can tell you that the first groove binds the pin at the shearline when you apply tension, and the next one provides a false set, so if it locks up, them moves and false sets, and you let off tension a tiny bit and it sets again it is a serrated pin. Spools are easier to tell because the false set they give is bigger than a true setting pin. Backing off tension after the false set try to push gently and if you get a rough metal dragging and the plug spins backward and stops sharply, then it's a spool. You can push normal and serrated pins past the shearline, but they won't come sharply to a halt like a spool does. The real trouble comes in trying to bring a 140 spool out of false set without unsetting other pins, or picking to hard and shooting it past the shearline. You could try using the back of you short hook to lift all the pins at once, then apply tension, turn your hook right side up and release some tension letting pins fall on to your short hook reverse picking them. It can work good on some 140's as 1 spool generally gets caught at the shearline this way. This however is making it more difficult than it needs to be.

Maybe get a made in china kwickset deadbolt knockoff for as much as a master no1 costs. Practice on it for a week or two and come back to the 140. Use the search to look for discussions on security pins and the 140 specifically as I know they are everywhere on this site. The only reason I wrote so much here is the 140 is one of my confidence locks. I have a pile of them I pop compulsively when I feel rusty, am getting my butt kicked by a tough lock, or just watching tv. Have fun picking yours.

-ToolyMcgee
ToolyMcgee
 
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Location: Indiana

Postby datagram » 27 Aug 2008 21:27

I'd second the Kwikset deadbolt. Great to start out with because they are easily repinned (more so than Schlage because of the easy pop-off pin chamber top) and some have a spool pins for when you get bored of normal pins : )
datagram
 
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Postby shatter » 28 Aug 2008 1:14

The easiest lock I have is a replacement (kwikset style) deadbolt cylinder made by "Mag" that I got at my local Menards. It was cheapest of the cheapest and only comes with a cylinder and key (the best part if you aren't planning on mounting it). No spools in this lock either making it relatively easy for a newcomer to pick.
shatter
 
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Postby ToolyMcgee » 28 Aug 2008 1:25

Small world. I had a Mag from menards clapmed to my headboard for weeks when I started. 3 bucks I think. Funny you should mention it because I found it more difficult to pick since the machining tolerances were so loose on it you had to pick the pins 1, 5, 4, 2, 3 or it would just jam up and you couldn't raise any more pins without letting off the tension and having them drop. A good lesson in picking order from a bad lock.
ToolyMcgee
 
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Postby Kite » 28 Aug 2008 21:08

Thanks for the help. I'll be sure to find something easier to try when I get my next paycheck. But I am also having trouble identifying when I hit the shear line. I can't tell whether the click is a false set or an actual set.
Kite
 
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Joined: 22 Aug 2008 22:01

Postby Kite » 28 Aug 2008 21:09

Thanks for the help. I'll be sure to find something easier to try when I get my next paycheck. But I am also having trouble identifying when I hit the shear line. I can't tell whether the click is a false set or an actual set.
Kite
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 22 Aug 2008 22:01

Postby ToolyMcgee » 28 Aug 2008 21:51

Kite wrote:Thanks for the help. I'll be sure to find something easier to try when I get my next paycheck. But I am also having trouble identifying when I hit the shear line. I can't tell whether the click is a false set or an actual set.


Yes, that is what makes lock picking a skill. :wink: When you hit false set on a spool pin the lock rotates more than it would if you had set the pin in most cases with a 140. Also if you back off tension and push up with your pick on the pin in question if the plug rotates backwards it's probably a spool pin. Serrated pins on 140's have shallow cuts, so it's a smaller click than a real pin set. Also, as I said before if 1 pin clicks more than once and doesn't give a spools false set it is a serrated pin.

-ToolyMcgee
ToolyMcgee
 
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