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cutaway lock problem

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

cutaway lock problem

Postby Darrylportelli » 15 Sep 2009 5:29

hey... today I made my first cutaway...it turned out preety good considering its my first cutaway.. the lock is a rim lock cylinder and I have a small problem....the lock has small brass rings on the top that keep the springs in the spring housing.. now since it was my first cutaway I messed up and while filing I lost these small rings.Can I replace them with a bit of chemical metal or epoxy cos without them the spring has no where to push on and thus there is no spring tension. :oops:
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Re: cutaway lock problem

Postby MacGyver101 » 15 Sep 2009 7:45

I'm not 100% sure, but it sounds like you're describing something like the press-fit arrangement that Best uses in their IC cores? This isn't the best angle, but you can see the caps in the top of the core in this image:


Those cores have a brass wafer that's pressed into the top of each chamber to retain the spring. (Rekeying those locks involves driving a punch tool up from the bottom of the lock: it pops the caps off and pushes the pins up through the top, but often destroys the spring in the process.) I'm not sure if they're the same diameter (likely?), but you could always check out your local locksmith and see if you could get a few from them: I'm sure they have bags of them, and would be happy to give you some for a dollar or two.

The other possibility, if you have access to a tap-and-die set, is to do something like what Medeco does with the screw caps on their mortise cylinders:


Depending on what cylinder you're starting with, though, there may not be enough metal in the "bible", or height in the chambers to make that particular solution work well. (Plus you'd be changing the construction of the lock slightly, which probably isn't your goal.)

Hope that gives you some ideas, anyhow!
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Re: cutaway lock problem

Postby Darrylportelli » 15 Sep 2009 9:34

yes i am talking about those caps..... locksmiths where I live are like flies (lol)...uselesssss!!!! they dont sell key pins driver pins springs nothing!!! my idea was to make a small ammount of chemical metal and see how it goes....Ill see if I have a set of screw taps first if i have Ill fit a small piece of a screw into the hole...
cheers
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Re: cutaway lock problem

Postby Darrylportelli » 15 Sep 2009 9:54

I got a new idea....a narrow strip of steel from a hacksaw blade and glue it on top of the spring housing....it will reduce spring tension only very slightly(since there is no space occupied by the brass ring now) but giving that the brass ring is very thin I guess that it wont make a difference at all.
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Re: cutaway lock problem

Postby jzz20 » 15 Sep 2009 20:07

Tap the holes, and use a grub screw of the same size and thread is the best way, can easily change your pins and add some security pins or whatever.
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Re: cutaway lock problem

Postby Darrylportelli » 16 Sep 2009 5:47

your idea is propably the best...but for a quick remedy I used a thin piece of metal on the top of the lock glued on with some hot glue....it works just as well but not as neat....as soon as I get my hands on some screw taps I will use your idea
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Re: cutaway lock problem

Postby Tyler J. Thomas » 16 Sep 2009 15:41

jzz20 wrote:Tap the holes, and use a grub screw of the same size and thread is the best way, can easily change your pins and add some security pins or whatever.


Gotta be careful with that approach.

If you go too far into the pin stacks you can risk crushing the springs or preventing the top pins, control pins, etc. from aligning at their respective shearline (remember, IC cores have a uniform pin stack even if they aren't master keyed).

I've never been in a situation where I've had to improvise a "cap" but I'd guess they're around .035" - .050" thick and have a slightly bigger circumference than the stacks themselves. I'd be cautious pressing anything bigger than that into those stacks.
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Re: cutaway lock problem

Postby jzz20 » 16 Sep 2009 20:16

Confederate wrote:
jzz20 wrote:Tap the holes, and use a grub screw of the same size and thread is the best way, can easily change your pins and add some security pins or whatever.


Gotta be careful with that approach.

If you go too far into the pin stacks you can risk crushing the springs or preventing the top pins, control pins, etc. from aligning at their respective shearline (remember, IC cores have a uniform pin stack even if they aren't master keyed).

I've never been in a situation where I've had to improvise a "cap" but I'd guess they're around .035" - .050" thick and have a slightly bigger circumference than the stacks themselves. I'd be cautious pressing anything bigger than that into those stacks.


That's true, but you can always tap 2-3mm into it and if the springs are being forced down too much by the screw you can simply back it off a little.
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Re: cutaway lock problem

Postby Artkrp » 27 Sep 2009 6:39

have you taken the lock into a locksmith in your area and asked him to cap it for 2 bucks? I cant see why they wouldn't. bringing the lock into them may change their mind, especially if your cut away is good. If not PM me and I will send you some IC caps. how you cap it on the other hand......That will be your problem. You could maybe use a small drift punch, but I have never had to do it that way. I either use a full size capping press from Best or some of the IC tools from A-1. maybe you can find them cheap online if look, but I doubt it. good luck!
*witty lock-related comment here!*
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