What lock system to invest in - Medeco or Mul-T

[pingable]

Can someone please advise....
I was interested in going with a Abloy Protec system for our home (entry doors) as well as padlocks for various applications including my bike and storage facility. However, there is not a single Abloy Protec dealer in our area at all if not 2 states over !

Plenty of Medeco and Mul-T locksmiths in the vicinity. Is any of their lines close or comparable to the Protec line....

[Squelchtone]

Can someone please advise....
I was interested in going with a Abloy Protec system for our home (entry doors) as well as padlocks for various applications including my bike and storage facility. However, there is not a single Abloy Protec dealer in our area at all if not 2 states over !

Plenty of Medeco and Mul-T locksmiths in the vicinity. Is any of their lines close or comparable to the Protec line....

I am going to PM you, check your messages please.

Squelchtone

[Solomon]

Neither of them manufacture disc detainer systems, no. I'd probably choose a medeco over a mul-t-lock, since code setting keys aren't anywhere near as easy to get hold of as the dedicated mul-t-lock tools... and even if you have those, they're still tricky blighters to pick whereas the dedicated mul-t-lock tools are relatively simple to get the hang of. At any rate, picking is the least of your worries. Most burglars will pry windows open or smash them... some have learned the fine art of cylinder snapping, but you're in the states so you won't have a euro cylinder on either of your doors.

Instead of installing snazzy locks that your burglar will completely ignore on his way to check out what kind of windows you have, try some of the following:

1. Install security lights for night time (especially at the back) so anyone approaching will immediately draw attention to themselves. This is not enough to deter most burglars but it will certainly put them on edge a tiny bit. If things continue to go downhill for him from here, he will get the message and leave. Get wire covers for them aswell to prevent sabotage.

2. High fences and shrubbery is a no-no. It looks great, but it is the perect hiding place for anyone who needs some private time with your back windows or doors. If they have no cover, and the security light is blazing, they may decide to move along... if not, they'll be well lit and in plain sight, so they'll sketch out if they can't get in quickly. Sitting in the dark surrounded by a high fence makes the badman very comfortable. "I can sit here for as long as I need to, look at the size of that tv. This is definately worth it". Not good stuff at all.

3. As for non-destructive entry, don't keep keys hidden outside. Burglars look for them. Don't even keep them in a wall mounted safe; they are easily bypassed. Bumping is nowhere near as common as you think, and picking is especially rare. To be on the safe side though, instead of getting locks which are ultra hard to pick, install door closers on the back door instead. If the lock is compromised, destructively or otherwise, the door still has a backup locking point and chances are if someone is targeting the lock they don't want to be making a lot of noise, such as kicking the door to get it open after they spent the time to bypass it.

4. In the unlikely event that they run the gauntlet and manage to get in, get yourself a basic alarm system with a couple of motion sensors. If anyone enters through the front or back door it will go off and in all likelihood scare them off. It'd take one determined mofo to go through all that and still try to steal stuff while the alarm is blaring.

[ElAbogado]

Neither of them manufacture disc detainer systems, no. I'd probably choose a medeco over a mul-t-lock, since code setting keys aren't anywhere near as easy to get hold of as the dedicated mul-t-lock tools... and even if you have those, they're still tricky blighters to pick whereas the dedicated mul-t-lock tools are relatively simple to get the hang of. At any rate, picking is the least of your worries. Most burglars will pry windows open or smash them... some have learned the fine art of cylinder snapping, but you're in the states so you won't have a euro cylinder on either of your doors.

Instead of installing snazzy locks that your burglar will completely ignore on his way to check out what kind of windows you have, try some of the following:

1. Install security lights for night time (especially at the back) so anyone approaching will immediately draw attention to themselves. This is not enough to deter most burglars but it will certainly put them on edge a tiny bit. If things continue to go downhill for him from here, he will get the message and leave. Get wire covers for them aswell to prevent sabotage.

2. High fences and shrubbery is a no-no. It looks great, but it is the perect hiding place for anyone who needs some private time with your back windows or doors. If they have no cover, and the security light is blazing, they may decide to move along... if not, they'll be well lit and in plain sight, so they'll sketch out if they can't get in quickly. Sitting in the dark surrounded by a high fence makes the badman very comfortable. "I can sit here for as long as I need to, look at the size of that tv. This is definately worth it". Not good stuff at all.

3. As for non-destructive entry, don't keep keys hidden outside. Burglars look for them. Don't even keep them in a wall mounted safe; they are easily bypassed. Bumping is nowhere near as common as you think, and picking is especially rare. To be on the safe side though, instead of getting locks which are ultra hard to pick, install door closers on the back door instead. If the lock is compromised, destructively or otherwise, the door still has a backup locking point and chances are if someone is targeting the lock they don't want to be making a lot of noise, such as kicking the door to get it open after they spent the time to bypass it.

4. In the unlikely event that they run the gauntlet and manage to get in, get yourself a basic alarm system with a couple of motion sensors. If anyone enters through the front or back door it will go off and in all likelihood scare them off. It'd take one determined mofo to go through all that and still try to steal stuff while the alarm is blaring.

Excellent advice. Unless you are Tony Soprano and fear the Feds entering your residence to install a wiretap, you don't need that kind of security when the weakest link of your security is probably the windows.

[globallockytoo]

Perhaps some might consider me biased, but I personally cannot recommend Mul-t-lock or Medeco due to the ease at which their products can be bypassed/bumped/picked etc.

Combine that with Medeco's inability to prevent duplication of their keys (on a credit card) and the erroneous pricings they charge for such mediocre security and I have to recommend Bilock each and every time as a simpler, more secure and more competitively priced alternative.

Also Bilocks quick change core functionality makes it a superior choice to those others too.

Aside from the fact that it is one of the few non-Assa-Abloy owned companies too.

$ for $ there may not be a competitor it's equal (save for Scorpion), in my opinion.

[ElAbogado]

Aside from the fact that it is one of the few non-Assa-Abloy owned companies too.

$ for $ there may not be a competitor it's equal (save for Scorpion), in my opinion.

The scorpion is an interesting beast for sure, but essentially it is a rip-off of Mark's High Security Cylinders, which in my opinion are the biggest bang for the security $$ on the market today. $22 for a HS mortice cylinder with 2 keys, or under $20 for a KIK cylinder also with 2 keys. The key blanks sell for $3 each with the sidewinder cut already made, you can use any code cutter to make the rest of the cuts.

One negative is that the sidebar cuts (sidewinder) are limited to customers and wholesalers so it's not hard to figure out what they are.

Bilock is probably a good lock, but I don't really want a monster key on my ring unless absolutely necessary.

El Abogado

[globallockytoo]

I'm not sure, but I think Marks actually license the Scorpion product from Scorpion in Canada.

[pingable]

So excellent advise all around....all of which I have in some fashion or another....on both windows if not alarm.

For padlocks, is the general rule of thumb -- a hardened shackle, thicker shackle the better, shrouded & as little clearance on the shackle length to whatever item you are securing it to ? For examaple, a 1 1/2 shackle would be better than a 3" shackle where on a ~chain~ where it would leave room for a prybar to have more access...

I have a Kryptoite legend chain as it was 15mm thick chain link and I got a great price on it..

[ElAbogado]

I'm not sure, but I think Marks actually license the Scorpion product from Scorpion in Canada.

I can't say for sure, but if you look at the exploded drawings of each lock, it is very clear that the two of them use the same basic locking mechanisms. I personally use the Marks HS locks and like them very much for the reasons I have stated supra.

One overlooked lock that is exceptional in its class is the Arrow SFIC new style. The control sleeve does not wrap around the plug like the others, so using the fingered tension wrench does not work to pick the lock to the control shear line. I would like to see them to insert a few hardened steel rods in the face of the cylinder to deter drilling the shear lines, and perhaps make stainless steel pins an option.

If you ever find out which came first, the chicken or the egg (Marks or Scorpion) let me know!

El Abogado

[Eyes_Only]

I'd try to install some of the hinge and other metal sleeve door reinforcement to prevent kick-in attacks like the ones offered here, https://securitysnobs.com/Guards-Tools/ . Most break-ins and home invasion attacks are done by brute force that the intruder hopes to have done in less than a minute so anything that causes them a bit of confusion, more time and more work will often discourage most criminals. Unless the intruder is hell bent on coming after you with a personal vendetta.

[globallockytoo]

so do more break ins occur in summer or winter and does the weather affect the method of entry?

[scorche]

I'm not sure, but I think Marks actually license the Scorpion product from Scorpion in Canada.

I can't say for sure, but if you look at the exploded drawings of each lock, it is very clear that the two of them use the same basic locking mechanisms. I personally use the Marks HS locks and like them very much for the reasons I have stated supra.

If you ever find out which came first, the chicken or the egg (Marks or Scorpion) let me know!

Not sure if you actually read globallockytoo's response, but it should be very clear that the two of them use the same basic locking mechanisms because they are using the same system. I can confirm his statement that Marks licensed the technology from Scorpion. In other words, they are using the design with Scorpion's permission.

[n2oah]

Bilock is probably a good lock, but I don't really want a monster key on my ring unless absolutely necessary.

BiLock is an excellent lock. They key isn't exactly a "monster," but due to the side-by-side nature of the pins, the key is a little thicker than the usual.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

There's a lot of debate regarding Marks/Scorpion CX-5 and possible patent infringment. I can't find any patent references through Marks Scorpion's CX-5 had two patents issued: one was issued on 11/12/2002 (US 6,477,876 B1) for the cylinder design and another was issued on 03/14/2006 (US D516,897 S) for the key design. Marks High Security didn't debut until early 2007, IIRC.

[zeke79]

As for the which came first, the chicken or the egg on the Marks/Scorpion question I am not sure. I do know that Scan Lock came before either of them and is the same exact design. If I recall correctly my scorpion key even fit into my scan lock keyway. There are some upgrades from the scan lock to the scorpion locks, my favorite being counter-bored pin chambers in the plug which catch and trap the special top security pins. When tension is applied and the pin stack lifted the special top pin gets trapped into the counter-bored area of the plug which makes picking much more difficult. This is the same feature that is used on many assa locks such as the 7 pin SCD (by far the nastiest security pins I have ever come across in a lock and counter-bored pin chambers on top of that) Assa Twin series locks etc.

I like the Scan Lock/Scorpion design but I don't like the fact that the sidebars can be disabled so easily with the regional distribution. It is still more secure than the primus locks however as even if you do use a cut down key blank to disable the sidebar you still have those counter-bored pin chambers in the plug to help prevent picking.

If you have not taken one apart and looked to see how those top security pins work with the counter-bored pin chambers in the lock plug take the time to do so as it is pretty cool to see. You might need some good light and a magnifying glass to get a good look if you don't have good eye sight.

I do like the fact that I know of someone who can provide the Marks version of these locks as I am trying to talk my father into upgrading the locks on his home as much of the hardware is just worn out. I'd like to get him into a high security system with key control and buying a Marks system outside of my area is likely the best way to ensure no one has access to a key that can be filed down to disable the sidebar. I could set him up on primus (old style) as before I went to protec on my home I bought my own sidebar on primus for my home to ensure I was the only one with access to the blanks. Though when it comes to locks he is very cheap so it will likely be that I just end up installing GMS MX cylinders (offers patented key protection with written contracts though no real protection from destructive entry techniques) into grade 2 schlage deadbolts and grade 2 US Locks knobs using door wraps for kick in protection since by the time I take out a 1" plug of wood there is simply not much material left to support the bolt. That along with a good strike box such as those supplied with the abloy protec that is secured with hardened screws from the back of the box and covered with an extended strike plate should do just fine for kick in protection.

Kinda got off topic there, sorry about that. Finding someone who sells the Scorpion/Marks system outside of my area just got the gears turning in my head since I know the work on his home needs to be done.