is this a schlage or a schlage primus? with pics!

[atticRR]

Hey, i was given a padlock today at work after admiring it in the back of a guys truck. It turns out it was a govmt issued lock from the Presidio in San Francisco. I was really excited to have this lock just given to me, then when i looked at the key and saw it was a Primus key i was transported to nerdvanna. now that ive had some time to poke around in the lock and the internet i'm thinking its a Primus key but a normal cylinder.
poking around inside, where the sidebar would be, i feel nothing but a smooth ward and i think i should be feeling something else. I found out that a primus key will fit into regular schlage keyways, plus there is a very fine groove (for a ward) in the key thats not present on the keyway.
I know that i can remove the core but i recently had a bad experience with a master 220 so i'm hoping to find some info before i open it . if it is a primus i'm not sure if the core removal procedure is different so i really dont want to screw this lock up. I think this is considered high security so i'm just trying to confirm my tentative ID, that being: I believe i have a removable core schlage padlock with a working primus key. Right?

Thank y'all,
R

[atticRR]

oops, heres the pics.

key and padlock:
http://s1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... 1358-1.jpg

keyway and my toes:

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... G_1359.jpg

[Anavaree]

Yeah, that is not an Everest or Everest Primus core. They have an additional little hook in the bottom right of the keyway which interacts with the finger pins.

[Anavaree]

Sorry, here is a pic.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/ ... 2749-1.jpg

[atticRR]

yeah thatsw what i thought after feeling around in there. oh well i still got a nice lock and an even nicer key. i feel confident about taking it aprt now-it needs some serious cleaning before i start picking on it.

Thanks for the quick response and pic. i really apreciate it. what an awesome site, right?

have a good one,
R

[cledry]

The padlock is a Schlage rebadged American with what looks like an ordinary Schlage C keyway. The key is indeed a Primus of the same section as the regular Schlage cylinder in your lock. This is done so that a building for example could have their perimeter with Primus cylinders but leave the interior on Schlage C or E or what have you. The regular C key wouldn't operate the Primus but the Primus key would work the Primus and the regular cylinders.

[Squelchtone]

AtticRR: Fun Fact: While Schlage uses a little mountain logo to identify Everest (as in Mount Everest), on your key where it is stamped 1 9 9 there is a little logo that stands for the initials of the Primus' and ASSA Twin's inventor Bo Widen.

=)

Squelchtone

[Evan]

@atticRR:

The keyway of your padlock is ordinary Schlage C...

The key you have been provided with the lock is Classic Primus...

cledry has described one of the intended uses for the Classic Primus cylinders in what is a hybrid/overlay type of security upgrade for an existing system where any existing lock cylinder can be swapped out for a Primus cylinder to upgrade the overall security of the desired locations without having to install new cylinders in the entire facility...

In your specific case I have a theory as to why a Primus key was used in a non-Primus cylinder in your padlock, unless they were both components of a larger keying system: security... You can obtain duplicates of Schlage C keys anywhere and everywhere with a key machine, you can not do the same with a Classic Primus key even though the original patent protections have expired -- there is a contractual requirement on the Schlage dealers who sell and service such locks to abide by the security protocols established for originating or duplicating Primus keys which is required regardless of patent protection status...

Considering how most places which duplicate keys would reject a Primus key because "we don't got those blanks" it is a cheap yet ingenious trick an institutional locksmith can use to extend the Primus key control security to non-Primus cylinders by providing the keys cut to operate those cylinders on Primus blanks...

~~ Evan

[Hindsight]

AtticRR: Fun Fact: While Schlage uses a little mountain logo to identify Everest (as in Mount Everest), on your key where it is stamped 1 9 9 there is a little logo that stands for the initials of the Primus' and ASSA Twin's inventor Bo Widen.

=)

Squelchtone

Squelchtone,

I just learned something! I had always wondered about that little logo. Thanks!

[atticRR]

evan & cledry,
thanks for the info. It makes a lot of sense to have these primus keys for this particular lock. the lock was given to me by a former employee of the Presidio in S.F.. this place is a huge complex, mostly abandoned, although some is still in use. In its heyday it had a bunch of military staff in residence here. This padlock (and others like it) were simply used to lock the back of the back of maint trucks to keep tools safe from theft (the public is now welcome to its 1491 acres). I'm assuming that using the key in its 'primus mode' would have granted access to the buildings or other, more sensitive, areas (as mentioned above by cledry). This would definately reduce the overall cost of providing locks for this sprawling complex. As an added bonus any key that got 'lost' would be difficult to reproduce because i would be very surprised if a locksmith in SF would copy it without the requisite documentation.

squelchtone,
thanks for that fact! Of course i'm eagerly waiting to get an Assa item in my personal inventory, now i kinda do.