European EVVA MCS in US housing

[YouLuckyFox]

I'm currently interested in purchasing an EVVA MCS rim cylinder lock from the company (haven't decided on AZ, AZG, AZI, etc yet) and putting it into a jimmy-proof deadlatch to house it here in the US. Does anyone know of some good, secure ways of doing this? I have a good amount of capability as far as installation goes, but would not be too proud to have a local locksmith help me if needed. I will be contacting a local locksmith about this question soon, but am not sure how well I will be received. I have installed a lot of deadbolts before, and am even familiar with drilling jigs and such, but have not installed a jimmy proof deadlatch. Will there be an effective crossover for an EVVA MCS here in the states? All suggestions are welcome.

[YouLuckyFox]

For those who are also interested in bringing the EVVA MCS over to the US, here is what I have found:
I started my search after a fellow forum member helped notify me that according to my security concerns, the EVVA MCS was the lock for me. Unfortunately, the lock is a European profile so I emailed EVVA directly to see if they had a US option and got this back:

<
Dear Mr. Fox,

many thanks for your inquiry. Unfortunately, I cannot tell you if our cylinder is suited for the American doors, as we are producing according the European norms.

Kindly note that we do not have a distributor in the USA, but you can purchase the MCS cylinder directly from our headquarter. Just let me know which cylinder size you'd need (available in 5mm steps, starting from length 31/31mm), cylinder surface (e.g. Nickel) and how many keys should be sent.
Do you have your own account (e.g. DHL, Fedex) for the dispatch? If not, it is no problem at all, we can include the carriage costs in the invoice.

Best regards

Jxxxxxxx Nxxx

Export

>

At this point, I had ruled out the EVVA MCS and was looking at the Dom Diamant. Fortunately the forum member found this thread and remembered there was a rim cylinder option:
http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=11912

After looking over the EVVA catalog, it indeed appeared that there would be an option for me. The forum member recommended finding a jimmy proof nightlatch that accepted rim cylinders. I am currently still at this step, but will soon contact a local locksmith after seeing what the rest of the forum thinks about this issue. I found in another thread that Segal was a good deadlatch brand, but am unsure. All the cylinders seem to have an in housing diameter of 28 mm:

Here is a link to the EVVA Catalog, rim cylinders starting on page 46: http://www.evva.at/uploads/media/Product_Catalogue_MCS.pdf

Please let me know if there would be a good option for this, especially if I will be able to purchase an easy to install non-mortice jimmy proof deadlatch from UK or something in the event that the US options don't work out. Please let me know of any thoughts on this matter.

[MBI]

Actually http://www.securitysnobs.com is in the process of getting set up to be the exclusive North American distributor for the EVVA MCS. I just talked to them and they said they won't be on the website until probably the end of the month, but if you contact them now they can tell you what your options are with those locks.

[YouLuckyFox]

MBI, thank you very much! I have been reviewing Security Snobs and have found them to have some great products, namely the Drumm Geminy. Would you recommend the MCS? I decided not to pair the Abloy Protec with the Drumm Geminy from Security Snobs because there is a object of compromise commercially available; I imagine the Drumm will be compatible with the MCS. Also, would you not recommend buying straight through the supplier for security purposes?

[MBI]

MBI, thank you very much! I have been reviewing Security Snobs and have found them to have some great products, namely the Drumm Geminy. Would you recommend the MCS? I decided not to pair the Abloy Protec with the Drumm Geminy from Security Snobs because there is a object of compromise commercially available; I imagine the Drumm will be compatible with the MCS. Also, would you not recommend buying straight through the supplier for security purposes?

Personally I'd still get the Protec, despite the object of compromise you mention, which is designed for euro cylinders not US rim cylinders. The Protec delivers a very high level of security and will be lower in price than the MCS, but there is a certain appeal to being the only guy on the block (or in the state) with an MCS on your door.

As for the Drumm Geminy, like most mechanical locking devices it can be picked, but most people have never even seen one and would probably have no idea how to begin compromising one. It's very expensive, but if you want overkill security it's something to consider adding to a deadbolt. I'm thinking about getting a couple of them myself, for my front and back doors. I like overkill. I don't know if it's compatible with the MCS or not, you'd have to call Security Snobs and ask them. It might depend on what door hardware they're using with the MCS and how far the cylinder protrudes from the face of the door.

Security-wise I wouldn't worry one bit about buying from Security Snobs. I know the guys who run the place and I trust them. But then again, I'm biased as I provided some assistance in setting up their website, so you can take my opinion however you want.

[YouLuckyFox]

MBI,
I am most pleased, thank you for your help. I think I will opt for the MCS, but you make a good point. My worry persists with the Abloy Protec, even still, in that a second instrument could be utilized to bring the port diameter to the proper dimension to implement the first tool. If there is a protection against this that I am unaware of, feel free to PM me. I'm being awful silly, as it's not likely anyone in the US will bother to get the instrument anyway; but if I'm going big, I might as well pull all stops. I might ask you if you are familiar with what the Overload Protection on the MCS is? I have found very little by the way of details on this function. Any help you can render is most appreciated.


I favor the Drumm Geminy because it is stainless steel and will do well against forced entry--I am mainly concerned about forced entry over surreptitious. Are you familiar if it has preventive measures against the overlifting technique that was utilized on the OLDER MulTLoks? If not, can you [or anyone else] recommend another good option for a shield? I like how the Geminy doesn't stand out like a vault handle on my door [http://www.freakonomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/secuityoverkill-1024x768.jpg] but still provides a high level of protection. Thanks again for your help, bytheway.

I have contacted Security Snobs and am looking forward to their reply!

[YouLuckyFox]

Note: Security Snobs says they have three in supply! Thanks again . Also their reply came sooner than EVVA did.

[YouLuckyFox]

It comes to my attention that I have not mentioned the main source of help up to this point. ARF-GEF is the "fellow forum member" mentioned in my other posts, he has informed me that I could include him in this topic. He has typed up several pages of helpful, resourceful, research and has been most timely about it to. May this post serve as public recognition of that service: THANK YOU ARF-GEF! I am still unsure of what type of locking mechanism will best fit the EVVA MCS, but will be in contact with Security Snobs to figure something out, thank you for the help!

[YouLuckyFox]

Update:
The following from Security Snobs, seems I have found the answer to almost all of my questions. Even Security Snobs thought this was overkill:

<

It could be paired with the jimmy proof, the abloy extreme bolt is only for abloy deadbolts however which it cannot be put into. We do have a rim adapter for the drum geminy but that really is overkill in 99% of the situations are you sure you want a geminy? Also we do not have combined geminy/evva keys so you would have a secondary key for the geminy.

>

P.S. These guys are just so fast, they answer my emails in literally minutes, awesome source for locks.

[YouLuckyFox]

FINAL:
This from Security Snobs. I now have all answers from my original post:
<
Well assuming you are not looking for exactly 3 keys or 26D we will need to order it along with our next order from EVVA so we are happy to order whichever model you want (unfortunately keys and keying can only be done at the factory). The rim adapter sits inside the deadbolt drumm shield to make it fit the smaller diameter. Rim cylinders do work with most jimmy proof latches.
>

[bembel]

As for the Drumm Geminy, like most mechanical locking devices it can be picked, but most people have never even seen one and would probably have no idea how to begin compromising one.

Yes, it can be picked. But you need special tools and even with that it's much more difficult than one might think. I tried it by myself and all I can tell is: I wouldn't worry much about picking.
And even if you somehow get behind the Geminy Shield, you still have to deal with the main lock.
In Germany, you can find them quite often on public ticket machines and other vending machines, it's an excellent protection against vandalism and forced entry.

[YouLuckyFox]

Bembel, thank you for your recommendation.
I am glad to know that this is a hard lock to pick, the best part is that these European lock mechanisms will probably be unfamiliar to people in the US. Exactly as you said about having a lock behind another lock; what I favor about this is that it would seem to make lockpicking and manipulation much more difficult. It could limit the tension wrench somewhat, it might mean the lock pick would be hard to get to the back, could mean getting a drilling jig set up could be harder.
Bytheway, if there are any other lock guard/shield options, please let me know. It sounds like the Drumm Geminy rules the market, though . It looks like Security Snobs only carries the industrial version and not the residential, so all the better I suppose. I am very pleased with the input I've received with this topic, thank you all for the input: especially ARF-GEF!

[ARF-GEF]

You are welcome YLF, and thank you for making this short guide-ish for others
The PM-s would have been all worthwhile even if I only helped you but it's good to know others can utilise it later on too

The pic you linked to (the one one from freakonomics illustrating security overkill) is actually quite funny, because that padlock can probably be easily bypassed.
Obviously the made the pic did not know that

Anyway I'm happy to know that everything goes well

[YouLuckyFox]

ARF-GEF,
Thank you for visiting this topic, you have been most helpful!

For those of you interested in what the "overload protection" feature is; it seems that, like the rules of Fight Club, we just don't talk about "overload protection," however I did get some great new brochures that I didn't find on the main website, and some further information on the EVVA MCS. Here is an email directly from EVVA:
<
Dear Mr. Fox

The "overload protection", as described in the brochure, is an additional feature; let's say it's a "nice to have" , but it is for sure not one of the main reasons why clients choose MCS.

The main reason is that the MCS key is 100% safe. No one on the world is able to make copy keys except our production here in Vienna. We have built the special magnetization machine here in our house, in cooperation with the University of Vienna and it is absoultely unique on the world.
The second main reason is that we are able to create very complex locking hierarchies with this system, it offers far more possibilities for the creation of master key systems than standard pin-tumbler systems.

I'll attach the newest brochure together with the data sheet to this mail.

Best regards
Jxxxxxxx Nxxxx
>

Here are some hard links to the brochure and data sheet I was sent, note that they both talk about this "overload protection."
http://www.evva.at/uploads/media/Datasheet_MCS.pdf
http://www.evva.at/uploads/media/MCS_brochure_EN.pdf

[YouLuckyFox]

Found some Drumm alternatives, both from HPC:
http://hpcworld.com/dg/highsecuritydoorguards/dorgardIII/index.html

http://hpcworld.com/dg/cylinderguards/dorgardII/index.html

I didn't find them mentioned elsewhere in the forum, so here they are. I have had good luck with HPC, but I don't think this comes close to competing with the Drumm Geminy.