Lock Picking 101 Forum
A community dedicated to the fun and ethical hobby of lock picking.
       

Lock Picking 101 Home
Login
Profile
Members
Forum Rules
Frequent Forum Questions
SEARCH
View New Posts
View Active Topics


Live Chat on Discord
LP101 Forum Chat
Keypicking Forum Chat
Reddit r/lockpicking Chat



Learn How to Pick Locks
FAQs & General Questions
Got Beginner Questions?
Pick-Fu [Intermediate Level]


Ask a Locksmith
This Old Lock
This Old Safe
What Lock Should I Buy?



Hardware
Locks
Lock Patents
Lock Picks
Lock Bumping
Lock Impressioning
Lock Pick Guns, Snappers
European Locks & Picks
The Machine Shop
The Open Source Lock
Handcuffs


Member Spotlight
Member Introductions
Member Lock Collections
Member Social Media


Off Topic
General Chatter
Other Puzzles


Locksmith Business Info
Training & Licensing
Running a Business
Keyways & Key Blanks
Key Machines
Master Keyed Systems
Closers and Crash Bars
Life Safety Compliance
Electronic Locks & Access
Locksmith Supplies
Locksmith Lounge


Buy Sell Trade
Buy - Sell - Trade
It came from Ebay!


Advanced Topics
Membership Information
Special Access Required:
High Security Locks
Vending Locks
Advanced Lock Pick Tools
Bypass Techniques
Safes & Safe Locks
Automotive Entry & Tools
Advanced Buy/Sell/Trade


Locksport Groups
Locksport Local
Chapter President's Office
Locksport Board Room
 

Great description of ASSA D12 and a question

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

Great description of ASSA D12 and a question

Postby PickAName » 2 Jun 2015 16:06

So, I was searching for information about the ASSA D12, the new ASSA model to replace the old 700-series (that has efficiently kept lock sport out of Sweden since 1948) as the new standard lock.

I came across this great article from Han Fey Lock Technologies (I've never heard about them, but then again I'm rather new to this)
http://hanfeylocktechnologies.com/Han_Fey_ASSA_d12.pdf

The D12 doesn't seem to provide any revolutionary ideas as far as lock picking goes, apart from a nasty keyway though it does support at least one innovative feature that may interest some in the advanced forums. (Well, the D12 came in 2010 as far as I understand, so it may not still be considered innovative).

Apart from sharing the article above I also have a question that I hope someone in this extraordinary forum might answer.

* What is the reason for the 12 cuts in a key for a six pin lock?

As I understand, with six active pins, only six cuts will be active (image on page 19 in said article).
PickAName
 
Posts: 10
Joined: 6 Sep 2013 6:54
Location: Sweden, Uppsala

Re: Great description of ASSA D12 and a question

Postby kwoswalt99- » 2 Jun 2015 16:53

He has some nice articles. I believe they use this system to masterkey and central key, without making them easier to pick by using wafers. I think it says in that article or some other one why they do it this way.
kwoswalt99-
 
Posts: 1218
Joined: 17 Mar 2015 15:35
Location: Somewhere.

Re: Great description of ASSA D12 and a question

Postby l0ckcr4ck3r » 2 Jun 2015 21:56

The dual cuts per stack were aimed at basic master keying without introducing wafers and degrading security as kwoswalt99 said.

It has another fringe benefit of being a lot more ambiguous to decode visually... read the UrbanAlps page today and got thinking!
User avatar
l0ckcr4ck3r
 
Posts: 293
Joined: 6 May 2013 0:41
Location: NC, USA

Re: Great description of ASSA D12 and a question

Postby PickAName » 3 Jun 2015 11:39

I'll definitely check out more from Han Fey. Haven't seen such a thorough description of a lock before (though the most interesting part was rather short).

I remember from some youtube video (I think) about using extra cuts for enabling masterkeying without the disadvantage of creating an "extra sheerline". Don't remember how it works though and I don't feel clever enough at the moment to figure it out for myself. Got any homework for me, pretty please?

As I understood from the above article, the lower cuts on the keys were a form of master keying, but as I think about it I can't make sense out of it. I guess that's just a higher level of security on the key, don't really get it though: If you were to just cut the low cuts at the deepest on a low security key, you'd still fit it in the lock for bumping or whatever it's supposed to protect against. Though a pin that goes that low has to be really hard to get at with a pick considering the shape of the key way.

Maybe I should just re-read the article I posted :oops:
PickAName
 
Posts: 10
Joined: 6 Sep 2013 6:54
Location: Sweden, Uppsala

Re: Great description of ASSA D12 and a question

Postby PickAName » 3 Jun 2015 11:46

l0ckcr4ck3r wrote:It has another fringe benefit of being a lot more ambiguous to decode visually... read the UrbanAlps page today and got thinking!


On the other hand it has two possible heights for every pin. So if you'd do it from a lower quality photo or indentation you may see a situation where you get to choose the most clear number. Also, if you copy it by hand, you could choose the easier cut, or if you accidentaly cut too low just go with the lower one.

I'm just speculating, decoding keys isn't really my thing. At least not at the moment, I'm still trying to understand the fundamentals of lcok mechanics :)
PickAName
 
Posts: 10
Joined: 6 Sep 2013 6:54
Location: Sweden, Uppsala

Re: Great description of ASSA D12 and a question

Postby kwoswalt99- » 3 Jun 2015 13:35

PickAName wrote:
l0ckcr4ck3r wrote:It has another fringe benefit of being a lot more ambiguous to decode visually... read the UrbanAlps page today and got thinking!


On the other hand it has two possible heights for every pin. So if you'd do it from a lower quality photo or indentation you may see a situation where you get to choose the most clear number. Also, if you copy it by hand, you could choose the easier cut, or if you accidentaly cut too low just go with the lower one.

I'm just speculating, decoding keys isn't really my thing. At least not at the moment, I'm still trying to understand the fundamentals of lcok mechanics :)

I don't think that's how it works. You would have to cut all 12 to be sure that the key would work. It doesn't need all 12 cuts, but you don't know which of the twelve you need.
kwoswalt99-
 
Posts: 1218
Joined: 17 Mar 2015 15:35
Location: Somewhere.

Re: Great description of ASSA D12 and a question

Postby PickAName » 3 Jun 2015 16:04

kwoswalt99- wrote:I don't think that's how it works. You would have to cut all 12 to be sure that the key would work. It doesn't need all 12 cuts, but you don't know which of the twelve you need.


Wouldn't they be in pairs though?


Edit: That was a stupid thought, obviously only the shallower cut out of the "pair" will touch the pin.. Sorry for being stupid... I think I need to learn how this masterkeying works before I make statements in this subject again. :oops:
PickAName
 
Posts: 10
Joined: 6 Sep 2013 6:54
Location: Sweden, Uppsala


Return to Locks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests