Upside down locks?

[Eazy123]

Having gotten into picking and locks in general this past year, I notice every lock I come across. While walking down the hall of my complex yesterday, I noticed a couple of my neighbors have their locks upside down. One has both his deadbolt AND handle lock upside down.

Is there a reason people do this? I would think that gravity would stress the springs more over time and dirt would get in the lock easier.

[Squelchtone]

Having gotten into picking and locks in general this past year, I notice every lock I come across. While walking down the hall of my complex yesterday, I noticed a couple of my neighbors have their locks upside down. One has both his deadbolt AND handle lock upside down.

Is there a reason people do this? I would think that gravity would stress the springs more over time and dirt would get in the lock easier.

People are dumb, I hate when I see a deadbolt in the USA installed upside down, but that's just my OCD kicking in. In Europe all locks are what Americans view as "upside down"

Here is a photo of a profile cylinder you might find in the UK:


and no, I dont think gravity will really do anything to the pins that are being pushed up by a spring, but it would seem like it would be easier for dirt to fall down into a pin chamber versus falling up into a pin chamber, I've thought about this as well.

Squelchtone

[Eazy123]

I didn't realize european locks were like that. I have a lot of europeans in my building so maybe it's just the familiarity that makes them do that. But the door handle upside down and deadbolt right side up is kinda weird.

[MiPo]

Very funny. When I started getting interest in picking locks, I always wondered why they (e.g. Bosnianbill) have there locks upside-down in the vice and when they talked about bottom & top of the keyway that seemed to be just wrong for me. So, I'm German and usually our locks are installed with bible on bottom. That's natural for me. There was never a problem with dirt as normally nothing else than the key comes in the keyway. An we even have much more narrow keyways And I also doubt that the springs would suffer from the little weight of the pins.
But I find it quite interesting that the word is split into top and bottom installation of locks. The US way is more picking friendly in my opinion, because an overset keypin does not come back down again. So gravity helps here. Also I found that gravity nicely supports picking as the pick goes up when my hand goes down. But I pick all locks to the best of my knowledge in the direction in which they are most likely installed. Often you can read text on the lock, then it's obvious. If not, then I go my euros with bible down and mortice the other way around. It's good to practice both ways.

BTW: Does someone know about the origin of this difference of installation orientation?

[Jacob Morgan]

Grew up in a house in the south-west USA, parents still own it Dust storms were a problem there. The wind always blows and most years less than a foot of rain. Had to change car air filters more frequently and it seemed like there was a layer of dust on everything. The front door lock is a Yale (grade 2?) that was installed upside down, circa 1988. It still works just fine. No doubt Yales in the 1980's were better built than whatever Home Depot sells these days, but dust and almost 30 years of gravity have not been a problem.

The USA right-side-up is better in theory, but maybe only slightly. Mainly upside down here means an unskilled worker installed it. And yes, when one takes an interest in locks it is striking how many are upside down. The strange thing is, if you look at artwork that shows keys, they are always upside down. If you asked a person to draw a key it would be upside down. The local DMV has a banner with the county seal or something along with car keys. The keys are upside down, but then the keys are Schlage too-I'd like to see that car.

[GWiens2001]

As I understand it, (and I may be wrong), the reason the European locks are installed with the pins on the bottom goes back to the old warded and lever locks. The bitting (flag) on the bit and barrel keys naturally faces down due to gravity. And with the locking components of the lock being above the keyway, there is not really a problem with dirt in the keyway, since it falls away from the locking components (wards or levers).

When modern pin tumbler locks came over to Europe, people were already used to the bitting of the key facing down, so they installed the pin tumbler locks the same direction, even though the locking components were now at the bottom of the keyway.

The smaller keyway does help to reduce how much dirt gets into the keyway, and pin tumbler keys seem less likely to hold as much dirt as a lever lock or warded lock.

When Linus Yale started making modern pin tumbler locks, he was here in the United States. His locks were mounted with the pins at the top to reduce chances of dirt getting into the locking components.

As another here has already stated, he has a lot of blowing dirt and dust in his area. Same with me, though I do not live in the central part of the United States (what is called the Great Plains). I live in the southwestern United States, in the desert. So the blowing dirt is more of a problem than in, say... Germany, where you almost have to break out your ration card each day the sun shines without clouds.

Gordon

[capt.dunc]

ok, first, not all pin cylinders in the uk and europe are installed with the pins down.

second, GWiens2001, your idea of the origin of upside down locks is wrong.


when rim cylinders were first fitted to doors they were fitted pins up, and they still are. if you see one with the pins at the bottom it's the sign of poor lock smithing. the manufacturer's name will be the right way up with the pins at the top and the instructions will tell you to fit it pins up. scandinavian style ovals (with seperate internal and external halves) and screw in cylinders also fit with the pins at the top.

the ones that fit with the pins at the bottom are the euro cylinders and oval shaped double ended cylinders. again with these the manufacturer's name will read correctly when fitted pins down.

these locks are normally found on upvc doors and they spread with them, although you can now get a deadlock that fits them and you'll often find upvc style locking mechanisms (multiple bolts) on wooden doors.

i believe that the reason they are this way up is that the cam has a short throw and you have to have the locking bolt that it engages and the handle linked to the bolt gearing in close proximity. so i suspect that ergonomics are the reason that the first locks were inverted. if the lock was just above the handle, then as your hand comes up from your pocket with the keys the handle is in the way and you'd be working over the handle to insert your key. by inverting the lock and putting it below, the system becomes easier and more natural to use.

always remember that the locks we pick are part of a larger locking system.

[ltdbjd]

A common reason I've seen for people installing their knobs upside down (USA) is that they buy a Tylo style lock (the ones that you can pop the lock part out of the knob) from a big box store off the shelf. Either they can't, don't know how, don't have the tool to do it, or don't know it's possible to flip it over.

The other common reason I see is that they installed the latch/bolt upside down, so the knob/bolt has to be installed upside down to make it fit/work.

And finally, the just slapped it on the door however they could, and don't care it's upside down.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

A common reason I've seen for people installing their knobs upside down (USA) is that they buy a Tylo style lock (the ones that you can pop the lock part out of the knob) from a big box store off the shelf. Either they can't, don't know how, don't have the tool to do it, or don't know it's possible to flip it over.

The other common reason I see is that they installed the latch/bolt upside down, so the knob/bolt has to be installed upside down to make it fit/work.

And finally, the just slapped it on the door however they could, and don't care it's upside down.

Yeah it pains me how often people miss the "This Side Up" or similar verbiage stamped on most bolts/latches.

[RedE]

A common reason I've seen for people installing their knobs upside down (USA) is that they buy a Tylo style lock (the ones that you can pop the lock part out of the knob) from a big box store off the shelf. Either they can't, don't know how, don't have the tool to do it, or don't know it's possible to flip it over.

The other common reason I see is that they installed the latch/bolt upside down, so the knob/bolt has to be installed upside down to make it fit/work.

And finally, the just slapped it on the door however they could, and don't care it's upside down.

Very true.

And even deadbolts with a brand name on the face seem to get installed upside down from time to time.

The only times I've really seen locks with pins below the plug are those found in screen doors and the like, which utilize a 5 pin euro cylinder.

[GWiens2001]

The only times I've really seen locks with pins below the plug are those found in screen doors and the like, which utilize a 5 pin euro cylinder.

And usually one that is far too long for the thickness of the door.

Gordon.