ASSA Abloy Group brands - quality ranked

[Lelandwelds]

The Best 91B and Master 29 or 19 are all out of production. A quick search showed there in some demand since people are collecting them. I think the Abus 83, Paclock puck, or Stanley is a better body choice. It actually looks like it is cheaper to go with the Abloy 350. Megadepot or Zoro has one in the neighborhood of $100 delivered .

What about those Kaba Ilco glass door mortice deadbolts? Those are available for $20- 25. They look like they would be tough to beat in a welded up steel door.

Are all Marks locks using the Scorpion core?

I thought universal pin meant just that. Thanks for the save.

So, is "Best Combinator" just marketing speak for a punch? Rytan or that blue punch are alot less $$.

[demux]

I have an Abus 83, it would be a solid choice. Again, not high security, but certainly not bad. I chose the American over it because the American body is a bit thicker and has a bit more heft to it. In an SFIC config, that means a bit more material around the core, which I like. One nice thing about the Abus is it's easily changeable from key retaining to non key retaining by simply installing or removing a little Z bar that's included with the lock.

Marks Hi-Security == CX5, it's the same cylinder just under a different name. It's the one that has the laser cut on the side of the key and a sidebar in the cylinder. Marks has a fairly complete lock line, not all of them have this feature. It's their Hi-Security ones that do. You can also get them in a UL437 config which includes anti-drill pins and I think a couple of other things to make them more resistant to destructive entry.

Yes, Best Combinator is the product name for the SFIC punch manufactured by Best, and yes you're at least partially paying for the name brand in that case. But also for accuracy. Remember, SFIC has very low error tolerances, so you do want to get a good punch if you go that route. One thing to keep in mind is that not all punches handle all SFIC keyways, particularly the PKS ones. Back when I was considering buying a punch, I was leaning toward the A1 Mean Green Machine.

[GWiens2001]

The A1 Mean Green Machine is the same as the original Best Combinator, just painted a different color.

Gordon

[gumptrick]

Are all Marks locks using the Scorpion core?

Marks Hi-Security == CX5, it's the same cylinder just under a different name. It's the one that has the laser cut on the side of the key and a sidebar in the cylinder. Marks has a fairly complete lock line, not all of them have this feature. It's their Hi-Security ones that do. You can also get them in a UL437 config which includes anti-drill pins and I think a couple of other things to make them more resistant to destructive entry.

Thanks demux. Yes, that's the one I was referring to. IIRC it was (or perhaps still is?) sold under the brand name Scorpion too. They seem to be a pretty good deal--they are much better security than most pin-tumbler locks but are a lot more cost effective than the high end Euro stuff, Medeco, etc.

I have an Abus 83, it would be a solid choice. Again, not high security, but certainly not bad.

I assume you're talking about the factory cores there. You can get the 83 with anything from the standard factory core up through offerings like Bilock and Protec2.

[gumptrick]

It actually looks like it is cheaper to go with the Abloy 350. Megadepot or Zoro has one in the neighborhood of $100 delivered .

You might also look at the Abus Granit series. Some have a tall shackle guard but some don't. And if I remember right you can get those for around $100 or less each. Those have a disc-detainer core which is pretty much unpickable.

Are these for your magazine project? I think I remember seeing a seller on Ebay offering a pair of Abloys for a very good price. They were located outside North America but were willing to ship to the US.

[Lelandwelds]

Yes but my magazine project might be stillborn due to the state insisting on insurance coverage. Total project looks about $3k. I need to be fairly certain I will be allowed to use it like I want before I start acquiring pieces. My wife wants the house finished and a few other things begun first. Priorities.

Right now I just know enough to be dangerous to my wallet.

I ve torn down my workshop ( converted cow shade). I can use what I am learning here to build its replacement. A lot of what I dabble in really isnt compatible. It would be nice to have separate buildings. I would like SFIC so I could carry fewer keys and allow temporary use for extended family. I need interior anchor points and something like a tool crib in each building.

[gumptrick]

Hah, yeah, I know what you mean about priorities!

The reason I asked was that if I remember right you were the one who had a lot of things to secure and were plagued by the "sightseeing thief"? That sounds like a great application for SFIC. I would imagine that most of those locks don't need to be super high security and given that there are many options. I've come across a lot of brand-new BEST padlocks on clearance because they were a discontinued model. I picked up five of them for $7.50 each; the shop had many more. There are also good ones from Paclock and Abus. Reasonably priced, and easy to re-key or swap cores if you want to change access. Combine that with readily available and inexpensive custom cores from Ebay and it sounds like a great solution.

For the magazine I would choose something more secure. And perhaps this is purely wishful thinking on my part, but it seems that it would be a good thing to be able to tell your potential insurance provider that your magazine will be locked up with CEN-rated locks as opposed to a DIY job.

[Lelandwelds]

I think I know who it is / was. I ditched the Master for key retaining A706 Americans. Tore down my ragged out old shop. Locked everything either in my attic or a conex.

I wish I knew about those Best padlocks first. I paid $22 each delivered for eight A706. I dont regret that purchase. I think the A700 is a lot of padlock for $20.

The insurance isnt for the magazine. Its for the "performance". They're display fireworks so the state insists I insure my audience even though its just me and the neighbors. $5k for backyard fireworks is a bit much.

[gumptrick]

I wish I knew about those Best padlocks first.

I've been telling myself that a lot lately. Currently I've been trying to find a few Master 29s. I want one for my collection, and I'm also seriously considering using 2-3 of them for some equipment and a storage building I need to lock up later this year when I complete my move. A beefy padlock that I can use my office key on and that doesn't cost an arm and a leg is exactly what I need. I came across a thread on this very site from back in April where someone was selling many of them, new-old-stock still in the boxes, on Ebay for a pittance. Back then I didn't even know to look for them. I'll still chase one down for my collection but I'm leaning towards Paclock for my actual use needs unless another killer deal turns up on the masters.

The insurance isnt for the magazine. Its for the "performance". They're display fireworks so the state insists I insure my audience even though its just me and the neighbors. $5k for backyard fireworks is a bit much.

Ah, interesting. I'd have thought they wanted the structure insured.

[demux]

I have an Abus 83, it would be a solid choice. Again, not high security, but certainly not bad.

I assume you're talking about the factory cores there. You can get the 83 with anything from the standard factory core up through offerings like Bilock and Protec2.

The one I have is the SFIC model. I just have a standard core in it (no PKS, Marks, etc). So yeah, not quite factory, but nothing high-end. Although, if was going to spend the money to field a padlock with a Bilock or Protec, I'd probably also invest in something just a bit heavier than the Abus 83.

[gumptrick]

[quote="demux" Although, if was going to spend the money to field a padlock with a Bilock or Protec, I'd probably also invest in something just a bit heavier than the Abus 83.[/quote]

What's funny about the "83" series is that it covers everything from small, aluminum-bodied locks (like LOTO locks) up through the massive 83/80 "Rock". I'm not claiming the big Rock is the strongest lock out there, but it's certainly no slouch!

[GWiens2001]

What's funny about the "83" series is that it covers everything from small, aluminum-bodied locks (like LOTO locks) up through the massive 83/80 "Rock". I'm not claiming the big Rock is the strongest lock out there, but it's certainly no slouch!

Yeah, it is a serious lock. Here it is next to a Master No. 3 and a mortise cylinder:





Gordon

[Lelandwelds]

I have the one in the middle!

[peterwn]

I do not claim to be an expert here, but from my experience:
....

I don't have any experience with Chubb, Alba, or Trioving personally. I know that Chubb makes some enormous but well regarded lever padlocks (the Cruiser and the Battleship), though I have never worked with them personally.
.....
Lockwood makes a very high quality lock but I am not aware of any current "high security" offerings that could compete with something like the Abloy, Abus Granit, or Ruko with a Twin core.

Chubb is a 'United Technologies' brand and is no longer available for use - Items previously branded Chubb (such as Cruiser and Battleship padlocks) are now branded Union (another ASSA Abloy company). British made detention locks (I think made by a ASSA Abloy unit) are still branded Chubb.

Lockwood make a high security cylinder similar to ASSA Twin and a dimple key offering. Also other ASSA Abloy offerings such as Medeco and Abloy are available with the Australian oval cylinder format. The main Australian high security offering outside ASSA Abloy is Bilock which is available in many cylinder configurations.

[adi_picker]

Lockwood do have a couple of good HS options. The dimple key you mentioned is actually a Lockwood branded MTL MT5+. Exactly the same, but with a differently shaped key head in grey and red, and because its Australia, they charge a whole lot more for them. The other option you also mentioned is the Lockwood Twin. Again, a rebrand from ASSA, somewhat similar to a Twin 1800, 6 regular pins (all regular drivers, no security), and 3 sidebar pins, all with only a couple of false gates, unlike the 'real' Twins that have false gates top to bottom. Also has a specially branded Lockwood key head, and also far more expensive than regular ASSA Twins, because.. Australia! I traded one I purchased to Gwiens, set me back about $150 or so for the cylinder with 1 key. Lockwood also have some super large body padlocks similar to the ABUS Rocks, the 356S63, the 270S70 and the 290S84 Shutter Lock. These last three are huge, beautiful lumps of brass and can be had cheap secondhand, as every bonehead shoplifter steals them and sells them to the local pawnbrokers cheap. They are limited however in what cores you can fit to them, as they use a core only used by Lockwood medium / high security padlocks, the same as the one used in the 334.

IMO Abus 83's and Rocks are a better choice. Cheaper for the same bulk, and every HS system has a core that fits right in. I myself have an 83/80 with a KABA eXpert fitted to secure one of my main toolboxes for travelling on road transport to and from sites. The other toolbox has an Abloy classic padlock in a body roughly the same size, but both are soon to changed out with a set of KA Ingersoll close shackles I just picked up offa eBay.

-adi_picker