Jammed lock problem

by **Benvox2** » 27 May 2007 1:39

Hello everybody,

Ok Ive done a search and cant find any similar stories to this so here it is.

Ive been re-pinning a 6pin cylinder like in digital_blues guide for practising eg taking all the pins out except 2, but today I decided to add another 2 pins so as im sliding the inner cylinder out with the right key in it, I forget to turn the cylinder 45 degrees and the pins pop into the worng places!

the first pin i stuck down because its under the hull (thus sealing the key in) and the second pin has been raised into the hull (thus sealing the cylinder in) because the key came out a bit and gave the "wrong key
effect" and now I have a key stuck in a cylinder witch is petruding about 5mm from the hull and Its all jammed in and i cant use it!

I know Ive posted a few topics in my short time here but their genuine, any help would be REALLY appreciated!

Thanks!

by **Benvox2** » 27 May 2007 1:58

Heres a picture of the jammed one and a un-jammed one.

by **jhl** » 27 May 2007 3:01

If you can push the key back into the plug, you should find things go back to normal.
Lots and lots of wiggling, push against the plug not the shell, etc.
A shim may come in handy.

Not least - good luck! I did this today and it took quite some serious Wiggles.

by **Benvox2** » 27 May 2007 3:37

Yea ive tried wiggling like theirs no tomorrow but the first pin is locking the cylinder where it is.

Ive tried picking the second pin from behind the lock but somethings stopping it, ive evan considered going at the key with a hammer knowing it would destroy the 2 pins but at least i could use whats left of the lock!

Thanks

by **Shrub** » 27 May 2007 5:19

Wiggleing and forcing it is not the way to do it and jhl if you had this EXACT same problem you were a very very lucky person,

Youve made a right mess of this and its a problem a lot of noobs get stuck with and cant get out of,

There are threads on this but they have such random thread titles that i cant find them in a quick search your title is a bit better but still doesnt lend itself to being found in a search,

You need to push the pins back up to remove the key,

You arent gogin to do this easily with your knowledge and experiance so maybe put it to one side and leave it until you know what your doing,

Otherwise start making tools, you can make a thin pick that slides down the side of the key and lifts the pins, this could be a simple feeler gauge with an andgle cut on the end, simply pushing it in straight will lift the pins,

You can try hitting the shell with a mallet and see if the pins bounce enough to allow the key out,

You can drill the key in half and emove it like that but i suggest its a bit precise for you to do if youve not the equipment nor knowledge to do it,

You can remove the top of the chambers and get the pins and springs out from the top,

Im sure theres other emthods but as its the sunday after the saturday night i cant think of them right now,

by **DaveAG** » 27 May 2007 5:42

Looking at the cylinder, and assuming it is in someway related to a scandinavian oval, you should have really easy access from the back

If you can find something thin enough, you should be able to lift the pins from the back easier than the front.

As Shrub said, the easiest way to get yourself out of this mess is to drill out the upper pinstacks, then replace the caps with small machine screws. It leaves the lock unchanged picking wise and makes it a lot easier to rekey.

by **Benvox2** » 27 May 2007 6:41

Yea as soon as it happened I knew I messed it up bad!

You cannot get to the pins from the top without drilling or damaging the hull so I don't really want to do that, I think the best way would be to as Shrub mentioned to get a very thin guage piece of metal and attempt to slide it past the key and push up that one pin, however I think it will be difficult to find such metal here.
I have already tried to pick that pin from the rear of the lock but something is blocking the pick from getting under that pin and im not sure what it is.

Thanks for the help all! ill see what I can do....

by **Shrub** » 27 May 2007 7:00

Benvox2 wrote: I think it will be difficult to find such metal here.

As i say use feeler gauge,

If you have cars in australia i know you will have feeler gauges in your local auto parts stores,

You can then use the other strips for other tools as and when you need them,

by **raimundo** » 27 May 2007 9:27

hold the cylinder in the palm of your hand with two fingers on the bow of the key, try to set the key so that the columns line up, that will be tricky, then smak the cylinder lightly on a softwood surface, so that the pins are driven down into the columns, while simultaneously attempting to rotate the bow of the key, if it works, the plug will unlock an turn. it could take a while, or it may not even work. You have to keep the collumns aligned as you do this, so pulling out may not be helpful, you are looking to rotate. IF you do pull out and succeed, you only fall into the same trap at the next collumn so your solution will definately require rotation not pulling or pushing.

by **quicksilver** » 27 May 2007 10:03

Could you please post a picture of the rear of the lock? if you could, a close shot showing detail.

by **quicksilver** » 27 May 2007 10:33

Frankly I just had a thought that piggy-backed on raimundo's idea....
Get an EXTREMELY firm piece of flat (or square) wire. The type that will not twist! Form a hook on one end that will go through the hole in the key. Attach the 'wire" one one end to something very firm; the other hook through the hole in the key. - Then use the rapping concept raimundo illustrated with a dead-blow soft-faced hammer and attempt to bounce the pin(s) back while twisting. - Strike the lock in-line with the pins while exerting a twist with the lock held in the hand; the "wire" lead exerting the twist. This will give a well co-ordinated and linear shock to the stuck pin(s).

But if I could see the back there may be an easier method (however, I'll bet you already thought of going through the back..., correct?). I was thinking of shims and shock or vibration....

by **Shrub** » 27 May 2007 10:49

Shrub wrote: You can try hitting the shell with a mallet and see if the pins bounce enough to allow the key out,

Whose idea??

by **UWSDWF** » 27 May 2007 11:07

this just turning into a rappers delight

by **Benvox2** » 28 May 2007 1:29

hmmmm some very interesting ideas...
I think that the whole "shock" idea is what will be needed if I dont get a hold of some feeler guage.

Its just going to be very hard as the inner cylinder has very little to no movement because its jammed so well, it can't rotate either without somehow moving the pins (only 2 of them in their)

However Im willing to do just about anything as the lock is useless in its current state.

Ill try take a picture of the bac now, but iy may not turn out too good...

by **jhl** » 28 May 2007 4:20

Ah, I realised after posting that you'd said it wasn't fully pinned. That *is* a messy one.

So, driver pins in the plug.
If they are short enough, then only the springs will be jamming the plug, rather than brass pins. That's better, because you can break them even if you can't overlift the drivers sufficiently to free the plug.
But depending on what sort of damage breaking them does to the rest of the lock, it may never be the same again.

Drilling down to the pin stacks and then eventually filling the holes with screws gives you an easily repinned practise lock; not a bad thing to have really. You'll need a drill press or a very careful hand though.

Shrub's suggestion of tossing it in the too-hard-for-now basket is also a good one.

Jammed lock problem

Jammed lock problem

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