ACE Hardware padlock...owning me

[theTastyCat]

On two occasions now I have attempted to pick Ace Hardware padlocks and failed miserably. My gf is now in charge of a program, and the previous director never thought to give her the keys to two trailers, which are both secured by Ace padlocks. After 30 minutes of looking stupid we cut the locks off.

So, I trotted my little self to Ace and bought a padlock to study. I've had zero luck with it; the little bit I can find on them here seems to say that they're such crappy locks with such crappy tolerances that they are actually quite difficult to pick - which I don't understand but I could certainly accept. I was dismayed to find that I can't do DB's fantastic one-pin-at-a-time exercise with a padlock without considerable investment in tools and parts. So - any words of advice? I can't even open it with Bogotas...gasp. I'm still getting used to how much tension to apply to a padlock in order to just overcome the cylinder tension, but no matter how much tension I use I can't seem to set any more than one pin. The key seems to turn really easily, but light tension, which has been such a massive help for other locks, doesn't seem to get me anywhere. Between that and the BEST cores I'm having zero luck with, I'm beginning have locksport self-esteem issues!

Thanks for the help. I'm happy to provide a pick of the lock if it would help.

[Squelchtone]

you must be from New England...

Ace Hardware locks are going to be made by either ABUS or American Lock, without a link to the Ace website or a pic of the lock you bought or the ones from the trailers, I can't tell you which.

Either way, if made by ABUS they'll be full of spool pins and German engineering, and if made by American Lock, they'll be full of serrated pins.

Both brands require light tension and pick much easier if you over lift them first, and use top of keyway tensioning.

There is the chance you also got a Made in China Ace Hardware lock but, until I can see a pic, it's hard to tell. Post on somewhere like photobucket if you have actuall pics, or post a link to the Ace site..

Thanks
Squelchtone

[theTastyCat]

I really hate to say I think I remember seeing "China" on the bottom, but I tried a few last night, so I'm not sure. Will post pics when I get home this afternoon. I really hope it's one of the quality locks you mentioned - I won't feel quite as bad

[chriswingate]

Ace Hardware locks are going to be made by either ABUS or American Lock. Either way, if made by ABUS they'll be full of spool pins and German engineering, and if made by American Lock, they'll be full of serrated pins.

I didn't know Ace Hardware locks were made by one of those two brands. Good to know, thanks for mentioning that.

[theTastyCat]

Well, much to my chagrin, it does in fact say "China" on the bottom. But dang, this lock has given me problems!! I'm about to try that overlift thing - is that basically turn the pick over, lift the pins as far as you can, apply a lot of tension, and gradually let it off, trying to set pins as you release?

Here are two pics.

[Oldfast]

I didn't know Ace Hardware locks were made by one of those two brands. Good to know, thanks for mentioning that.

+1 on that. Thanks for that little tid-bit Squelchtone. I had been wondering about that myself.

TastyCat, just wanted you to know your not alone I had purchased one of these a couple weeks ago, tried it a few times (with no avail) and it's been setting there ever since. On the up side I thought " at least I'm getting a run for my $. At the same time kinda frustrating though- Why can I open all the brass #'s from both Master and Brinks and not this? It looks to be exactly like yours. It might be the next size up, but still a 5-pin with CHINA on the bottom.

Your post prompted me to give it another try. Over an hour later, still nothing...then finally... I've now popped it several times in the last few minutes. But not without learning a valuable lesson: Don't get stuck in your ways! My preferred method/approach with most locks is a 5-6'' tensor used at the top of the keyway, along with various slim-line hooks or deforest picks.

My lock is all spools except for the standard driver on pin 2. It sets first giving me a false set at about 1:00. But from there I had a hard time setting other pins without dropping that first one, but was certain I had the correct order. Long story, short, I ended up going against all my instincts and tensioned from the bottom with a stiff 3" wrench and used a medium 1/2 diamond. This, for me feels very un-natural and tight. But immediately, I was able to set the spools one after another without dropping the last. Light to med-light tension.

Note: I noticed your first pin sets much lower than mine, so this may or may not help you. Either way, I learned something new tonight, so thanks.

[chriswingate]

My lock is all spools except for the standard driver on pin 2. It sets first giving me a false set at about 1:00. But from there I had a hard time setting other pins without dropping that first one, but was certain I had the correct order. Long story, short, I ended up going against all my instincts and tensioned from the bottom with a stiff 3" wrench and used a medium 1/2 diamond. This, for me feels very un-natural and tight. But immediately, I was able to set the spools one after another without dropping the last. Light to med-light tension.

Here is something you can try if you know that you have mostly spools, and you get a false set after setting one pin, most likely the regular driver. You can set a spool, if it drops, but the spool sets, just hold tension and set that standard driver again. I have had a few locks that I can set a spool, set standard, set spool, set standard and so on until it opens.

Anyway, just something to think about trying if you want.

[Oldfast]

I have had a few locks that I can set a spool, set standard, set spool, set standard and so on until it opens.

Yea, you bring up a good point (+ a question). I too have had to do this with a couple locks. Normally all spools and one standard, or all spools and one serrated. Although the end result is an open lock, it brings up a question- When I have to jump back and forth like this, does it mean I'm not picking in the correct order? Or not necessarily? I guess I'm under the impression that every lock will have one "true/perfect" setting order which will allow you to open it without ever having to touch a pin more than once. Is this too idealistic? Or would this only happen in a "perfect lock world"


TastyCat, any luck yet? If not............................refer to my signature line

[chriswingate]

Based off of the machining of locks, "most" locks have a binding order that can be figured out, but then there are locks that can be opened with multiple different pin picking configurations. I think generally the higher the tolerances, i.e. higher quality locks like ASSA and Medeco's, tend to have a more specific binding order because of the tighter machining tolerances. I know on the Twin's and Biaxials and what not that I have picked, that I can open them every time by picking the exact pins in the exact order.

That said, there are locks that I just go back and forth, pins setting and dropping, and eventually it tends to open. Serrated pins obviously can make this more difficult since you could mistake a serration for a set. Then with experience you can tell the difference.

Click, click, click, set! gotta love serrated drivers, and serrated spools!

[theTastyCat]

Well thank you both - you're giving me some hope! I've got a Schlage deadbolt that's all spools except for one driver, and I LOVE it. What I wouldn't give for a good 10-degree false set on this thing! When that cylinder starts rotating backwards, I know EXACTLY what's going on, and there's very little that feeds back so much in picking so far in my experience. So now that I know that I'm probably dealing with spools, I might begin by raking to try and achieve a false set, then go from there, because, pretty much just like my Schlage, I can't seem to set anything at all, so chances are I haven't ever set the driver pin, and the spools are just laughing at me. We'll see who LAUGHS LAST, MAGGOTS!!!

Thanks fellas - sure appreciate it. I'll post back when I'm successful for my virtual victory lap.

[chriswingate]

Cool man, good luck!

lol, another thing you can try is to over lifting the pins, but lifting them all then applying tension, and feel them drop and you slowly release tension, sometimes you can achieve a false set that way. Also you can try lightly pulling your pick across the bottom of the pins, and each time increase the pressure, that can help too.

Anyway, just some tidbits to help you out. Keep us updated on your progress.

[Oldfast]

Based off of the machining of locks, "most" locks have a binding order that can be figured out, but then there are locks that can be opened with multiple different pin picking configurations. I think generally the higher the tolerances, i.e. higher quality locks like ASSA and Medeco's, tend to have a more specific binding order because of the tighter machining tolerances. I know on the Twin's and Biaxials and what not that I have picked, that I can open them every time by picking the exact pins in the exact order.

That said, there are locks that I just go back and forth, pins setting and dropping, and eventually it tends to open. Serrated pins obviously can make this more difficult since you could mistake a serration for a set. Then with experience you can tell the difference.

Click, click, click, set! gotta love serrated drivers, and serrated spools!

Ahhh, thanks for info Chris, as this question had been knawing at me for some time. Wow, I've learned several good things from just this one thread. Good stuff!

TastyCat, just wanted to throw out a video that I found very informative.
jruther2 does a nice job with this. A Brinks with 4spools/1standard.

http://www.youtube.com/user/jruther2#p/ ... iPO1do9dgw

[chriswingate]

No problem, glad to help.

To the original poster, my apologies for hijacking the thread.

[theTastyCat]

No worries, Chris - glad to be learning!

Well, I absolutely, completely cannot get this lock to a false set. I'm wondering if perhaps, like the guy mentions in the above video, it's all spools with one regular for a driver, and the driver sets last. But even so, I should be able to set all the others normally first, I would think. I might just take it to a smith and ask if he can pick it. Or else mail it to one of you all! I can open my 4-spool Schlage deadbolt all day, every day, but I can't even begin this thing. Oh well - thanks for all the help so far and I'll keep you posted!

[Squelchtone]

No worries, Chris - glad to be learning!

Well, I absolutely, completely cannot get this lock to a false set. I'm wondering if perhaps, like the guy mentions in the above video, it's all spools with one regular for a driver, and the driver sets last. But even so, I should be able to set all the others normally first, I would think. I might just take it to a smith and ask if he can pick it. Or else mail it to one of you all! I can open my 4-spool Schlage deadbolt all day, every day, but I can't even begin this thing. Oh well - thanks for all the help so far and I'll keep you posted!

Wobble your tension wrench from light to medium and at the same time insert an S rake all the way, and as you pull it out of the lock quickly apply more rotational force on the wrench, keep trying that until the plug turns and the lock opens.

Squelchtone