Picking lever handles?

[emt1581]

Today I tried picking one of my office doors. The handle looks like this...

http://www.lowes.com/pd_169391-352-F51CS+V+ELA+626___?productId=3255742&pl=1&Ntt=door+handle

When I put the key in and turn it, there's some pretty stiff tension on the cylinder but then you also have to have your other hand on the lever itself to physically turn the door handle. I tried searching "lever" thinking it would be a commonly discussed type of lock but I didn't see anything so I apologize if I missed something in the search.

But what am I missing here? Do I need a different (maybe stronger) tension wrench? How do I keep tension on the lock and the door handle and pick at the same time??

Thanks

-Emt1581

[GWiens2001]

DO NOT PICK THE LOCKS AT YOUR OFFICE.

I am yelling because we mean it! You do not own those locks. They are used to secure things of value. And if your member name is correct, it secures equipment that makes the difference between life and death.

It is illegal to open those locks. Don't believe us? Ask a lawyer. Which you may end up doing anyway.

If things go missing from those areas, who are they going to blame? You will get the blame, whether you did it or not. Then we hobbyists all get a black eye. The media is always looking for a chance to pounce on us, any chance to proclaim in broad headlines that we are criminals.

We promote the LEGAL use of our hobby. Please, keep it legal. And please do not pick locks in use.

Gordon

[emt1581]

DO NOT PICK THE LOCKS AT YOUR OFFICE.

I am yelling because we mean it! You do not own those locks. They are used to secure things of value. And if your member name is correct, it secures equipment that makes the difference between life and death.

It is illegal to open those locks. Don't believe us? Ask a lawyer. Which you may end up doing anyway.

If things go missing from those areas, who are they going to blame? You will get the blame, whether you did it or not. Then we hobbyists all get a black eye. The media is always looking for a chance to pounce on us, any chance to proclaim in broad headlines that we are criminals.

We promote the LEGAL use of our hobby. Please, keep it legal. And please do not pick locks in use.

Gordon

Yikes!! Something about books and covers seems appropriate here....

I'm a VOLUNTEER EMT. And I OWN my office...which is my private practice.

-Emt1581

[Robotnik]

If you own it, God bless. In Gordon's defense, it did come across as though you were picking locks in a municipal facility when I first read your post too

That said, I'd caution against picking locks in use. Far better to drop $10-$15 on a decent selection of practice locks than to damage $30 (or $400) hardware. I've picked hundreds of different locks thousands of times, and while I can count on one hand the number of locks I've broken, it does happen.

Good luck, and happy picking.

[emt1581]

If you own it, God bless. In Gordon's defense, it did come across as though you were picking locks in a municipal facility when I first read your post too

That said, I'd caution against picking locks in use. Far better to drop $10-$15 on a decent selection of practice locks than to damage $30 (or $400) hardware. I've picked hundreds of different locks thousands of times, and while I can count on one hand the number of locks I've broken, it does happen.

Good luck, and happy picking.

Just curious here, but, other than my screen name, what exactly sounded like a "municipal facility" in my OP? I only ask because I just called it an office.

That being said, I'm still curious to know what technique/tools need to be used given the dual super-heavy spring tensions? And do they make practice locks for lever handles?

Thanks

-Emt1581

[Squelchtone]

Just curious here, but, other than my screen name, what exactly sounded like a "municipal facility" in my OP? I only ask because I just called it an office.

1. you said "one of my office doors", most normal humans don't have offices of their own, let alone with multiple office doors, and if they do they call them their "home office", other wise mentioning ones office implies ones work place.
2. it is a lever handle which most residences do not have as they are not under the same guidelines that commercial business buildings are in terms of Americans Disibility Act and requiring handles over knobs which are harder for some to grip and turn.
3. most people have 1 job, so by virtue of the "keep it simple stupid" mantra, to me at least when I hear "emt + office", I think firehouse or a private ambulance company garage which probably has some sort of dispatcher office, bosses office, employee office, payroll lady office, etc.

we all assumed it was offices at your primary job, if we are wrong, please help us understand rather than being difficult about it. I sense we are not all getting off on the right foot here.

All we offer is good advice so folks don't form bad habits and get themselves into trouble picking locks that don't belong to them or even worse possibly tarnish the name of a recognized hobby that 5 to 10 years ago was seen only as a criminal act, but now it's actually pretty well known that folks do it as a hobby, and we prefer to keep spreading the good word rather than having to explain ourselves if one of our members does something questionable.

Squelchtone

[Devhad]

I don't think their should be any tension on the keyway. Unless the key draws back the latch in which case you wouldn't need to turn the handle.

[billdeserthills]

These can be very hard to pick, they have the schlage 'F' series knob cylinder with the collapsible spring-loaded bible(top cover)
and are loaded with schlage's 'T' top pins, not to mention the orientation is sideways. I keep replacement cylinders and sometimes just
destroy the cylinder to get in

[cledry]

Storeroom function lever would retract the latch with key and have heavy tension but you would not need to turn the lever, in fact it would be rigid unless clutched. The same with an office/entrance function if the button was pushed in and rotated. Classroom function would require rotating the key but should have no spring tension.

A photo of both sides of the handle would help. The generic Lowes photo is not the actual one you are picking is it?

[Knots]

Just curious here, but, other than my screen name, what exactly sounded like a "municipal facility" in my OP? I only ask because I just called it an office.

1. you said "one of my office doors", most normal humans don't have offices of their own, let alone with multiple office doors, and if they do they call them their "home office", other wise mentioning ones office implies ones work place.
2. it is a lever handle which most residences do not have

Squelchtone

I should probably hold my tongue here as I'm referencing an admins quote but it's just really offensive. "most normal humans don't own offices"?? These aren't super accurate figures but of the 10 million offices in the US and the 319 million people residing in the US I'm gonna say it's pretty normal to own your own office. My building that I own has an office in the back. I've even picked the lever that used to be on the door before I changed it to a schlage. And if the 12 doors in my house and two glass storm doors two of them have a lever open handle. I'm not trying to be disrespectful and I honestly apologize but when a site gm jumps down a members throat COMPLETLY ignoring their question and berating them on not picking locks on a lock picking site and then another site admin making blanket statements like "most normal humans don't own offices" it's not just unsettling but saddening. I'm a very new member and of the few posts I've rwad the I've seen the same gm lecturing people about not opening locks that aren't theirs. We understand you don't condone opening locks that don't belong to you but jeeze, why not at least ask if they have a right to be opening these locks! You're assuming that these people are just breaking the law? Calling a new member a criminal or insinuating it isn't going to make them want to ask anything else. These are people only interested in developing thier skills and they first have to get past not one but two site admins berating them for their question. Again I'm sorry if this is offensive but you really struck a nerve just assuming you know what you're talking about when you obviously don't. It's not disrespectful to say you don't because you literally said normal people don't own offices.

[GWiens2001]

Just curious here, but, other than my screen name, what exactly sounded like a "municipal facility" in my OP? I only ask because I just called it an office.

1. you said "one of my office doors", most normal humans don't have offices of their own, let alone with multiple office doors, and if they do they call them their "home office", other wise mentioning ones office implies ones work place.
2. it is a lever handle which most residences do not have

Squelchtone

I should probably hold my tongue here as I'm referencing an admins quote but it's just really offensive. "most normal humans don't own offices"?? These aren't super accurate figures but of the 10 million offices in the US and the 319 million people residing in the US I'm gonna say it's pretty normal to own your own office. My building that I own has an office in the back. I've even picked the lever that used to be on the door before I changed it to a schlage. And if the 12 doors in my house and two glass storm doors two of them have a lever open handle. I'm not trying to be disrespectful and I honestly apologize but when a site gm jumps down a members throat COMPLETLY ignoring their question and berating them on not picking locks on a lock picking site and then another site admin making blanket statements like "most normal humans don't own offices" it's not just unsettling but saddening. I'm a very new member and of the few posts I've rwad the I've seen the same gm lecturing people about not opening locks that aren't theirs. We understand you don't condone opening locks that don't belong to you but jeeze, why not at least ask if they have a right to be opening these locks! You're assuming that these people are just breaking the law? Calling a new member a criminal or insinuating it isn't going to make them want to ask anything else. These are people only interested in developing thier skills and they first have to get past not one but two site admins berating them for their question. Again I'm sorry if this is offensive but you really struck a nerve just assuming you know what you're talking about when you obviously don't. It's not disrespectful to say you don't because you literally said normal people don't own offices.

Knots,

I apologize for assuming that you did not own your office. However, nothing you have mentioned before this in any way implied that you owned the office. We have many new members who want to pick everything they can find, including locks at their workplace. We strongly discourage that.

Now, as for your assumptions that the ownership of 10 million offices is evenly distributed between 319 million people, that is so inaccurate as to be laughable. I have been in highrise office buildings that are 60 floors tall. Thousands and thousands of people work in those offices. And it is doubtful that more than ten actually owned the office they worked in. Most people in this country will never own an office.

This is a lockpicking forum. Yet we try to maintain a strict adherence to the law, and we are very strongly against criminal use of hour beloved hobby.

We also do not want anyone to be browsing our site and saying "See... here is someone picking the locks at their school, workplace, dormitory, or any other place they should not have access to, and nobody is saying they shouldn't do so". Certain parts of the media would love to have all sites like this one shut down. So we try to give them as little ammunition to use against us as possible.

So please try to see things from our point of view, as you so obviously expect us to be completely familiar with your particular situation without personally knowing you or you having said anything. We have stated our reasoning. You have stated yours.

One of our positions is not picking a lock that is in use. You will find dozens of threads here about people who picked their own lock, and now the lock does not function correctly, if at all. That is another reason I jumped so fast. Wanting to stop the lock from possibly being broken. Would you want to explain to your insurance company that the reason your office was not locked when you went on a call and everything was stolen was because the lock had failed while being picked? I certainly would not.

We are not against picking locks you own, and that you do not depend on. I have well over a thousand locks in my collection, and have picked most of them at one time or other. But I have not picked the locks on the doors of my house. Why not? Because I messed up the lock on an apartment I had rented once maybe 25-30 years ago. I learned the hard way. Was in another country, and had no access to rekey kits, so I had to pay to replace the lock. It was a very costly mistake. Want to keep others from making the same mistake.

Now that we have both stated our points, let's end this pointing fingers and calling names. Am a moderator, and it is MY JOB to keep people from posting about things that should not be posted. And to resolve disputes. Squelchtone is the site administrator, and also has those duties and more besides. He tried to let you know why I posted the response I did, and all that happened was a continuation. Please, let this be the end of it.

Gordon

[Knots]

I don't know why you would think I was insinuating in any way anything in this country is evenly distributed, especially offices. But seeing as I have a professional office in my business and my wife, an RN, has an "office" in our home - really just a spare room- I just meant it was offensive to say no normal human being owns an office.
As for the rest of your post, I completely empathize and understand where you're coming from. Thank you for the reply. This is your site and you have every right to moderate it as you see fit. I didn't mean to overstep.

GWiens2001 thank you as well, for quoting the entire post in its entirety. Lol

[GWiens2001]

I don't know why you would think I was insinuating in any way anything in this country is evenly distributed, especially offices. But seeing as I have a professional office in my business and my wife, an RN, has an "office" in our home - really just a spare room- I just meant it was offensive to say no normal human being owns an office.
As for the rest of your post, I completely empathize and understand where you're coming from. Thank you for the reply. This is your site and you have every right to moderate it as you see fit. I didn't mean to overstep.

GWiens2001 thank you as well, for quoting the entire post in its entirety. Lol

Just trying to show you respect, sir.

Gordon

[cledry]

I think it is semantics; "normal people" should probably have been worded "people normally"

Again could you post a photo of the actual lock from both sides. It would help me understand the issue. I have over 30 years experience with commercial locks. The lock on the Lowes site is more a residential lever than a commercial one, but I occasionally do see them in offices too.

[Squelchtone]

- I just meant it was offensive to say no normal human being owns an office.

I don't understand why you're so offended or hanging on every word I wrote, especially on some benign topic or opinion about how many people do or don't own an office in America. You're not even the guy who originally wrote about having an office where he picks the locks. I'm sitting in an office building typing this right now, and yes as an employee of a company I call it my office, but god knows I wouldn't dare pick my employers door locks, it's not my business to be doing that.. Why is it so wrong for us to offer such advice to steer new members away from getting in trouble?

Here's where we are coming from in case GW didn't make it clear enough. A lot of people come here and say I picked the locks on MY apartment door.. well we all know that it's not their actual door, it is the landlord's property, so you in fact do not have the right to be picking the landlord's locks because it goes way beyond the expectation of regular use as a tenant. It breaks a trust and then when you accidentally do something to that lock, you either have to fess up which most people wont, or you play coy and call the maintenance guy and say oh gee will it's stuck or the key isn't working smoothly.

So over the years we've also had many people here who say MY office or MY dorm room and in most cases it is their assigned office, but not their actual office or office building that they legally own or have a deed to. Even if you rented an office in a strip mall and ran some small business out of it, and picked the locks for fun at your office, it's still property of the strip mall management company, and unless they let you install your own cylinders, probably not a great idea to be picking THEIR locks on "your" office door.

Going back to what I originally said, I know a lot of people in my every day life and they all have jobs and work in some sort of shop/office/store/etc but I have to tell you out of the hundreds of people I know, nobody owns an office building or an office. I know someone who rents an office in an office building, so are we just hung up on terminology here? because yes, people rent offices all the time, but no, most people don't own offices or office buildings, unless you have friends in a different tax bracket than I'm in. I don't know if I can possibly say that any clearer.

Please stop being offended at things on behalf of other people. I'm not sure what's happening to our namby pamby society but not everyone is a special snow flake, and we reserve the right to tell someone to not pick a certain lock and they don't get to cry about it or get all aghast or offended that someone on the internet told them to do or not to do something. As I'm reading your posts today it seems you're a locksmith, so fine pick your front door all you like because you actually know what you're doing, but that advice we dish out that you're so offended by isnt for you it's for the many who come here who dont know what they're doing and we'd like to spare them from breaking the lock, or getting in trouble or getting a bad reputation around their dorm building or work place for being the shady person who picks locks around the place. It's also not very polite of you to post your commentary on the 1st day you sign up. Next time you have an issue, send the moderator/admin team a private email instead and we'll be glad to address your concerns.

Squelchtone

ps. Thank you cledry for flipping the words to their correct order, hope it makes more sense that way to everyone else reading.