Plastic keys!?

by **Chronos** » 27 Feb 2005 1:39

So a friend came over, and I saw this in her purse:

I don't know if any of you have seen these before, but I have seen posts about plastic keys and the general consensus was that it wouldn't work, but here it is. Any comments on this?

by **The Wanderer** » 27 Feb 2005 2:01

This is a bit off topic but, has anyone ever thought to try impressioning with plastic keys and then cutting a regular key from it after? Wouldn't that make it a bit easier?

by **digital_blue** » 27 Feb 2005 2:07

In order to impression you have to apply significant rotational force to the key. Plastic just wouldn't hold up to that kind of pressure. Even brass keys are known to crack and break during impressioning.

db

by **Chronos** » 27 Feb 2005 2:13

But wouldn't you need less pressure for a platic key?

by **vector40** » 27 Feb 2005 2:14

I don't think that standard plastic would work, Wanderer; aside from the strength issue, it just wouldn't mark. Brass doesn't "dent" or anything, you just get little scratches or polish marks -- plastic wouldn't even allow that.

Chronos -- my mother used to have a card like that. It's just an emergency key, and yes, it works -- you just have to be real careful not to break it when you turn.

by **digital_blue** » 27 Feb 2005 2:24

And if you do break it, you need to call AAA, but don't worry, their number is printed on the card you snapped that key out of. LOL.

by **Chronos** » 27 Feb 2005 2:37

Ok, I guess those are more common than I had thought :oops:

Why wouldn't a plastic key work for impressioning though? Couldn't you rough a plastic blank up just like you would a brass one and wouldn't the pins rub smooth spots on a plastic key as well?

by **vector40** » 27 Feb 2005 11:07

Well, bear in mind that I'm talking out of my ass here, but plastic doesn't really take visible marks -- at least, not EASILY visible. Take a bit of metal and rub it on a credit card; do you see any real difference? You do if you actually DENT the plastic, but that's different than scratching it, and I'm not sure if impressioning would press firmly enough to dent.

by **digital_blue** » 27 Feb 2005 11:18

I don't know that I agree with vector here. Plastic will definately scratch. If you don't believe me, I'll introduce you to my Palmpilot. And that is from wear created by another piece of plastic. But none of this is really the point, since, as I said, you couldn't put enough force on the key to properly bind the pins without cracking the head off it and having to call those fine folks at AAA.

db

by **The Wanderer** » 27 Feb 2005 11:20

I'm not sure I can agree with Vector40 or DB on this one. I am not a locksmith, and I have never attempted to impression a key, but what you've said is illogical to me. The strength and rotational torque required to leave a mark on plastic would be considerably less than with a brass key. Plastics have come a long way in the last ten years or so. There are many different kinds of plastic. Some are as strong as steel. Half of the parts in your car are made of plastic and last for decades. The plastic should hold up and leave a mark with less force. I could see it being a problem if you over torqued it. Then it's not the key/plastic failing, it is you who have exceeded its structural integrity. Sometimes less is more.

Vector40, your going to have to qualify your statement about brass leaving a mark on a blank, when plastic wouldn't. That makes no sense to me at all. Why would there be no indentations left on a plastic key blank compared to a brass one? I work with plastics all the time. It is very easy to mark. Maybe too easy. I'm going to see if I can get someone here in the automotive capitol of Canada to make a few key blanks for me from plastic. I have a friend who works for a place that makes plastic auto parts. Maybe he can make me some blanks for my little experiment. Who knows...I could be on to something here.

by **raimundo** » 27 Feb 2005 11:26

rotational force is used to bind the pins, if your plastic blank had a space cut out for a split tensor to do the binding, it might work, but do not rough up the place where you want to impression. it may be very hard to see marks. experiment with your idea, maybe your on to something new. I have heard of using plastic softened by a bit of fingernail polish remover, (dilute acetone) This may make it possible. work with your idea, invent something.

by **vector40** » 27 Feb 2005 11:50

Sorry, yeah, i'm not being clear. Plastics range from taffy-like to iron-like.

I'm imagining the sort of plastic in, well, that AAA key-card. That IS pretty soft, and morever, it's white, so there's no "finish" to scratch (not that you could rely on scratching a finish, anyway, since once you got through the top layer, there wouldn't be any left).

But yeah, this is just my feeling. If it's possible, I'd suspect that the indicators you're looking for would be different than with a brass key.

Really, someone should just try this

You don't have to actually file it, just go through the motions of inserting a blank-shaped plastic and doing an impression dance.

by **newbie5000** » 3 Mar 2005 16:57

chrons the plastic key is used in an emergency when the key is lost and it can be duplicated on a regular key cutting machine. Also the key snaps in and out of a credit card sized card so it can fit in a wallet or purse.

by **erehwesle** » 3 Mar 2005 22:02

I had a plastic key for my last car, which was handy, kept in my wallet and it was quite useful one time I locked my keys in the car, however, I (out of curiosity) after I broke it out from the card (and hence made it much less handy) tried it to destruction.

It lasted ten uses before it wouldn't open the car anymore.

Given impressioning (which I know little about) generally uses a brass blank, and brass keys are useful for tons and tons of uses, I'd think the weakness of the plastic wouldn't make them that good for any real use.

Plastic keys, I think, are a nice novelty, and possibly convenient for if you lock your keys out. As keys aren't much thicker than a credit card, anyway, I have taken to keeping a normal car and house key in my wallet anyway.

by **The Wanderer** » 3 Mar 2005 23:01

erehwesle wrote:Given impressioning (which I know little about) generally uses a brass blank, and brass keys are useful for tons and tons of uses, I'd think the weakness of the plastic wouldn't make them that good for any real use.

The idea was to impression the lock with a plastic key blank and then cut a proper key by using the plastic key you just made. I'm still working on this project. Hopefully, one will be able to impression the lock with a plastic blank more quickly, and with less effort than with a brass one. If this is not the case then then why bother......I wonder if Edison started out this way?

Plastic keys!?

Plastic keys!?

Hmmm...

Impressioning with plastic.....

force

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