Difference in Schlage models

by **23skidoo** » 19 Jun 2006 23:02

So, then it technically wouldn't be unlawful. Just against the manufactuers policy. Am I correct?

by **zeke79** » 19 Jun 2006 23:03

23skidoo wrote:
zeke79 wrote:I can tell you this for a fact. If someone brought us a key that happened to be our same sidebar bitting but wasnt from us and said duplicate it, we cannot. If they said recut it, we cannot. Who knows what they are going to use that recut key for?? I can come pretty darn close to decoding a schlage key by sight. Does that mean I should be able to take my house key to another lockie and tell him to recut it to a master key I visually decoded at work?

Well, isn't bringing in a key to dupe and bringing in 3 cylinders to work on are two different sides?

Yes it is two different things. I still made a point about recuts. Who knows what you are recutting to. Most lockies who cut on a primus system keep track of systems they have cut and try not to overlap too much in given areas. Chances are you arent going to recut here key into a master key for the local hospital, but you catch my drift.

by **maxxed** » 19 Jun 2006 23:04

devildog wrote:Why? He's not creating a new blank; the only legal protection those keys have is against patent infringement, which means for you to break the law so that they can come after you, you have to manufacture a restricted blank AND then use it to make a profit. If I make a Primus, or Medeco M3, etc. blank, it's still not illegal as long as I don't use it to make money, because I haven't infringed on the patent.

You two posted just when I did; what you're asking about is exactly my point, DB--the only 'legal' protection these restricted keys have is against patent infringement, and for that to apply you have to copy the design AND you MUST somehow use your copy to turn a profit. A hobbiest like one of us can copy whatever we like, legally, as long as we don't use them to make money.

An arguement can be made for the fact that the only reason someone would do this is for profit. I don't want to pick legal battles with companies that have way more financial resourses than I

by **23skidoo** » 19 Jun 2006 23:04

Ah, good point. Thanks.

by **zeke79** » 19 Jun 2006 23:05

See, that's where I am unsure. Since the lockie who purchased the system HAS the only LEGAL rights in that area to cut those keys with that particular sidebar code. You may land youself in hot water.

by **devildog** » 19 Jun 2006 23:06

I was just going to say, you know, what zeke is saying is probably dead on for Primus dealers, but not the rest of us, because they had to sign a binding legal contract that schlage was able to insert whatever terms they pleased into, so if one of them violated one of those terms, schlage would have the ability to take legal action against them because they violated the terms of a binding legal contract. So, DB, you and I can modify all the Primus/Medeco/Abloy etc. blanks/keys we want to (just don't sell 'em) but Zeke can't....poor zeke

by **zeke79** » 19 Jun 2006 23:09

Read my above post as I believe this could apply to anyone. Given the fact a locksmith would have a good enough reasone to pursue legal action far enough.

by **maxxed** » 19 Jun 2006 23:11

devildog wrote:I was just going to say, you know, what zeke is saying is probably dead on for Primus dealers, but not the rest of us, because they had to sign a binding legal contract that schlage was able to insert whatever terms they pleased into, so if one of them violated one of those terms, schlage would have the ability to take legal action against them because they violated the terms of a binding legal contract. So, DB, you and I can modify all the Primus/Medeco/Abloy etc. blanks/keys we want to (just don't sell 'em) but Zeke can't....poor zeke

These companies will go to extreems to protect their systems. They view the system as their property and the lockie as a salesman.

by **23skidoo** » 19 Jun 2006 23:13

Hey Zeke and Maxxed, thanks for the info. I never knew high security had this great of a depth.

by **maxxed** » 19 Jun 2006 23:19

You are welcome, a high security is a good investment for a lockie. If you are planning on making this your career then check it out. I have settled on Primus because I can mix it into a standard key system and I don't need any special pin kits.

by **23skidoo** » 19 Jun 2006 23:23

Yeah I do plan on do it as a career. I am already getting a good reputation around town for residential work and have a few regulars who own complexes and shopping malls and are happy with me setting up their master key system (I'm cheap!)

by **digital_blue** » 19 Jun 2006 23:29

*db goes off to modify every patented key he has*

Come and get me fellas!

Seriously though, I just can't see modifying a protected key as being something that anyone could have any legal recourse against. I am not totally certain of this, and obviously, I'm not a lawyer, but before I could bring myself to believe that it's actually illegal, I'd have to have a clear understanding what makes it illegal, and under what jurisdiction it is considered illegal.

I think dd has a point about legally biding contracts though, but even that would fall under contract law, so it's another matter altogether. To the best of my knowledge, the Criminal Code of Canada has no legislation pertaining to protected keyways, nor have I ever heard of any provincial or even municipal laws that would prohibit it.

So, unless I'm missing something, it would seem that patent infringement would be the extent of the legalities.

I'd be more than happy for someone to correct me in the matter tho, 'cause I'm just workin' off what "makes sense" to me.

db

by **maxxed** » 19 Jun 2006 23:32

Don't sell youeself too cheap. It degrades the entire market, everyone should be in the same price range. You will realize this the day your competitor drives past in a new Corvette and you cann't afford to put gas in your scooter!

by **23skidoo** » 19 Jun 2006 23:36

maxxed wrote:Don't sell youeself too cheap. It degrades the entire market, everyone should be in the same price range. You will realize this the day your competitor drives past in a new Corvette and you cann't afford to put gas in your scooter!

Oh, I'm not too cheap. Let's just call it competitive pricing. :wink:

by **maxxed** » 19 Jun 2006 23:37

DB There is someone in my area who is installing Primus cylinders that match my sidebar code and the keys are not stamped with a dealer #.I am tracking down who it is and I plan on turning it over to my distributer, who in turn should contact Schlage about it. Will let you know what happens if you wish

Difference in Schlage models

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