Know a good gun lock?

[Shrub]

The way i thought would be good to lock guns would be to have somthing that fits in the cartridge hole and then shoots a botl out either end thus locking it in there and not allowing any bullets to be loaded,

TRhe other idea was to simply make ther trigger removeable, if they cant fire it theres not much danger,

But as ive said before im not a fan of guns in any way at all so have very little interest in continueing any design ideas i may come up with,

Good luck with your venture, the materials needed to make it out of would make it a little out of reach to make at home but if its only prototypes and proof of concepts then cardboard will suffice or whatever for the mock ups,

[UWSDWF]

Remove magazine, remove bolt (lock both in a secure box elsewhere) run 1"chain threw the triggerguard and around something solid like a radiator place a heavy padlock of your choice to secure chain.

[n2oah]

Abloy makes a good lock used as a secure keyring. It's a cable lock, and I would imagine it comes with a fairly rigid cable.

[n2oah]

Here's a picture of them:
http://www.lockingsystems.com/IMAGES/ABLOY_Key%20Ring.jpg

[fsdhy]

Here's a picture of them:
http://www.lockingsystems.com/IMAGES/ABLOY_Key%20Ring.jpg

Nice find! Thats a good starting point. All you need to do to turn it into a true high security gun lock is replace the cable with something much stronger.


Mercurial, judging by the size of the cylinder on those cuffs + the size of the key, that is WAY too big for a trigger lock. Ever seen a trigger lock or its key? Well you know those little keys your daughter (if you have one) uses for her diary? Its that size.

Plus, there are some crazy people out there who definitely need to be restrained with the best products available... There's a big market for restraints... How many gun owners do you know who would go above and beyond the law by buying a high security trigger lock? Unfortunately, most of them use those 25$ Sentry/Garrison fire boxes to store their guns

[Knowthebird]

Ok.

I did some looking at some locks at wal mart.

I decided the most reasonable soultion for a good gun lock at a good price would be this. Using steel cable (not sure about its strength) and a padlock.

The ones I saw that looked good where...
Mountain Security 6' weather proof steel cable $4.27 and a
Brinks shrouded hardened steel padlock, product #10244831 $11.84

That model brinks lock was the only one I saw there that was sold that claimed to use high security pins.

The traditional cal. approved gun lock cost $4.96

I thought that modifying the U bolt on a kryptonite padlock to use steel cable would be to time consuming, require some decent tools, and would also reduce security since you are severly weakening the U bolt. It may be pretty pick proof, but that would not make a differece if someone could finish cutting through the U bolt with a hammer and cold chisel. It would also increase the price since those locks cost aroung 15 each. It was also mentioned at one site that these locks are broken easiest where the U bolt connects to the lock base. This makes since if you look at the patent for it.

There is one nice kryptonite lock that would be good to modify for a gun lock.

http://www.kryptonitelock.com/inetisscripts/abtinetis.exe/PublicArticleDetails@public?artid=2736&atf=products_item&pgrp=20

It would be difficult to pick and the lock and shackle are said to be really tough. The weakest part about a mod to this lock would probably be the smaller chain you would need to buy to fit through the chamber of the gun. If you looked around you might be able to find a high security chain that would be appropriate. This mod would be the most expenisve aswell because the bike lock cost around $80. I don't believe that is much cheaper then the newer abloys. I don't know if the older abloy padlocks that can be bought for around $75 have tougher shackles then the bike lock. I would expect this bike lock to be stronger.


Ok, Thats what I came up with.

[mercurial]

Mercurial, judging by the size of the cylinder on those cuffs + the size of the key, that is WAY too big for a trigger lock. Ever seen a trigger lock or its key? Well you know those little keys your daughter (if you have one) uses for her diary? Its that size.

Plus, there are some crazy people out there who definitely need to be restrained with the best products available... There's a big market for restraints... How many gun owners do you know who would go above and beyond the law by buying a high security trigger lock? Unfortunately, most of them use those 25$ Sentry/Garrison fire boxes to store their guns

I really don't like guns, I have not ever seen a trigger-lock in person. I did google for some pics of trigger locks before I posted, and juding by what I saw, I respectfully disagree that the lock in that set of handcuffs I linked to is too large. It is only a _3_ pin Medeco, not a fullsize cylinder.

The bow of the key isn't small, rest is quite tiny. That said, my real-life experience of trigger-locks is non-existant, and you could well be right.

I fully agree that gun many owners (I don't know any personally), are unfortunately inclined to use a cheap $25 'safe' (or whatever minimum-cost 'safe' that meets the legal requirements for firearm storage.)

Here in australia, I think the bolt(or someother critical part of the mechanism) plus the ammunition must both be stored in separate places to the rest of the firearm - but again, I am sure many people do not use high quality storage for these items, in general And also countless cases of people ignoring these rules altogether.

You are absolutely right when you say high-security restraints are definately needed in some situations - all I was trying to say is that the use of the Medeco cylinder is overkill in these handcuffs (as it would be in a trigger-lock).

The restraints need to be VERY secure, but with a person cuffed properly behind their back, with cuffs as robust as these, there is very little need for a Medeco cylinder in addition to all this, I feel that is overkill...

If people go overkill on these restraints, I would think there are also some gun owners who *would* want to go overkill on their trigger-locks. In fact this thread was started with a request for information on SECURE trigger locks.

Maybe most gun owners don't care, but there are always people obsessed with using the 'most secure' (or most secure-looking) lock available for the purpose.....

I'm sure some of us on LP101 have some locks that are seriously overkill for job they are doing.

I agree that this would most likely be the minority of gun-owners, and the rest will buy merely what barely satisfies the legal requirements for gun storage.

I'm not trying to argue with you - I certainly do not know much about guns, or trigger-locks - I'm just trying to explain my opinion.

All the best,

...Mark

[fsdhy]

Mercurial, judging by the size of the cylinder on those cuffs + the size of the key, that is WAY too big for a trigger lock. Ever seen a trigger lock or its key? Well you know those little keys your daughter (if you have one) uses for her diary? Its that size.

Plus, there are some crazy people out there who definitely need to be restrained with the best products available... There's a big market for restraints... How many gun owners do you know who would go above and beyond the law by buying a high security trigger lock? Unfortunately, most of them use those 25$ Sentry/Garrison fire boxes to store their guns

I really don't like guns, I have not ever seen a trigger-lock in person. I did google for some pics of trigger locks before I posted, and juding by what I saw, I respectfully disagree that the lock in that set of handcuffs I linked to is too large. It is only a _3_ pin Medeco, not a fullsize cylinder.

The bow of the key isn't small, rest is quite tiny. That said, my real-life experience of trigger-locks is non-existant, and you could well be right.

I fully agree that gun many owners (I don't know any personally), are unfortunately inclined to use a cheap $25 'safe' (or whatever minimum-cost 'safe' that meets the legal requirements for firearm storage.)

Here in australia, I think the bolt(or someother critical part of the mechanism) plus the ammunition must both be stored in separate places to the rest of the firearm - but again, I am sure many people do not use high quality storage for these items, in general And also countless cases of people ignoring these rules altogether.

You are absolutely right when you say high-security restraints are definately needed in some situations - all I was trying to say is that the use of the Medeco cylinder is overkill in these handcuffs (as it would be in a trigger-lock).

The restraints need to be VERY secure, but with a person cuffed properly behind their back, with cuffs as robust as these, there is very little need for a Medeco cylinder in addition to all this, I feel that is overkill...

If people go overkill on these restraints, I would think there are also some gun owners who *would* want to go overkill on their trigger-locks. In fact this thread was started with a request for information on SECURE trigger locks.

Maybe most gun owners don't care, but there are always people obsessed with using the 'most secure' (or most secure-looking) lock available for the purpose.....

I'm sure some of us on LP101 have some locks that are seriously overkill for job they are doing.

I agree that this would most likely be the minority of gun-owners, and the rest will buy merely what barely satisfies the legal requirements for gun storage.

I'm not trying to argue with you - I certainly do not know much about guns, or trigger-locks - I'm just trying to explain my opinion.

All the best,

...Mark

If you consider our discussion an argument, you should spend an evening with my girlfriend... She'll show you what an argument is really like

The trigger locks I see most often over the course of my week are Master lock product # 90 and they use blank 1092B aka M2. Go to Section 2 Page 41 of your key blank directory. Compare that key to the size of your medeco 3 pin, you'll see what I mean. You are right, its small enough to fit on the trigger lock... Except because of the nature of a trigger lock mechanism, the cylinder cannot really extend too far into the trigger lock itself. So if you slapped that medeco on there, you would end up with something at least twice the width of what we use now... Storage would be an issue.

I'm a locksmith and I tend to go above and beyond with my security, so I know what you mean. But keep in mind, I can afford to go a little overboard when I pay wholesale prices

[mcm757207]

I don't have very much experiance with guns, so forgive my ignorance, but why not just get a really massive, thick-shackled padlock and lock it behind the trigger so it can't be pulled back?

[fsdhy]

I don't have very much experiance with guns, so forgive my ignorance, but why not just get a really massive, thick-shackled padlock and lock it behind the trigger so it can't be pulled back?

First, because padlock shackles are only so thick. You've got double action and single action triggers... Different pull distances with each. You've also got different shaped triggers depending on which model of gun, plus aftermarket triggers. If you look at the shapes of various trigger guards and triggers, you'll see that the shape is kind of working against your idea. It may work on some guns, others not. Can your product really work on as many firearmams as today's trigger and cable locks do?

Its a good idea, but to get a padlock with a shackle that thick you'd also be burdened with a very large padlock body. It would potentially way more than the gun itself. Also, most governments are fairly strict on what you can and cannot use as a safe locking device.

[fsdhy]

Also, with a padlock that massive, you are also risking snapping the trigger off if you are less than careful.

[n2oah]

I believe those abloy keyrings should be strong enough to withstand most stuff. If you want extra, however, you can always do it. First, you'll need to find a padlock where you can remove the shackle. A miracle lock comes to mind, here, but many other locks have completely removable shackle. Next, you'll need to get some cable. Maybe the kind of stuff they use on telephones to avoid cuts and vandalism. Then, you'll need to make a place where the ball bearings in the lock can slide into to hold the cable in place. You could either crimp something to the ends of the cable, or just make notches into the cable. And you have your high security cable lock.

[a_kayaker]

They do make a great lock for guns. I have one... it's called a safe.

If you are serious about locking up your guns save the cash little by little and get a good one. If you just have handguns get a smaller one.

From reading this post I understand that you are trying to come up witha new idea for a trigger lock.

Trigger locks are meant to keep your kids from playing with the guns. If a BG gets into your home and sees the trigger locks he is not going to give up there. He will take the firearms anyway and work on them on his own time.

If you are keeping a pistol for conceal carry or home defense it needs to be available at a moments notice. I use a simple wall safe with an electric combo pad. A BG could take the safe but he is going to have to rip it off the wall first and with 4 5/8" lag bolts mounting it to the studs this will be no easy task.

I have probably gone overboard here and offered way too much info, but guns are my thing.

For what its worth.

Big E

[Knowthebird]

Ok. Well not to keep pushing this topic too much, but many of you are locksmiths for a living, so...

What safe is good in both quality and price for pistols and/or for rifles.


And thanks for the replies. I feel better educated on this subject now :-)

[a_kayaker]

Hey Knowthebird,

Question? What are you trying to accomplish with this lock?

I for one understand building a better mousetrap and just building stuff for fun, but what is the goal? It sounds like you would like to secure the firearms and keep them away from... this is where I get lost.

A high security lock and a beefed up cable will not keep anyone from taking the gun. At that point a die grinder and 5 mins will have your locking mechanism torn into shreds.

I can see sinking a as mall fortune into a custom lock that will have no impact on the final result. The weakest point would be the cable.

If I were to use a cable it would be hidden inside the barrel. One end would sit flush with the end of the barrel and the other would be inside the breech. A cable would run from one end to the other down the barrel and holding both "plugs" in place. This would keep the trigger exposed, but would require the action to be open and the gun unloaded. I would place the locking mechanism on the end of the barrel. Maybe a nice recessed tubular lock. The whole thing could be brass. This would eliminate the risk to the firearm. You would have to remove the barrel, destroy the gun, or go through the lock. With my plan as well... the lock is the weakest point and the cable would have to be somehow adjustable to suit any lenth of barrel.

Like this.

breech ---------------------------------------- end of barrel

--- / \
---------------------------------------------
--- \ /
----------------------------------------

Man that sucks! Anyway you get the idea.

A Brinks lock from WM will have more security then any gun lock. The gun locks are meant to keep kids safe.

I'm not trying to bust on you here. Quite the contrary. I would be interested any new ideas pertaining to firearms.

Just trying to help.