to Medeco or not/

[globallockytoo]

I'm happy to modify my statement based on both previous posters comments. Alarms can be a type of security device, but only that they inform (alarm) of security issues. Cameras too, by the same token can be considered a security device in that they do not protect, rather they inform.

I considered a security device to be a product that helped to physically secure a building or dwelling.

I stand corrected and thank you for explaining your opinions. Your explanations of what you consider could also be security devices, encouraged me to modify my thought process about those products.

Would you be prepared to accept that whilst alarms are a type of security device (in that they inform rather than prevent), they would not be considered a product that attempts to prevent surreptitious entry, unlike locks and locking systems?

[Trip Doctor]

Is surreptitious entry surreptitious if it leaves easily noticable evidence (that is, in this case, video recording)? By its definition, it's not. Not arguing here, more of an actual question, lol.

I'll agree that alarms and cameras do not improve physical security, that is, it doesn't prevent the door from being kicked out as easily or the lock to be any more pick resistant, I would still say it's a deterrent. By informing, (and everyone being aware of what it does), it deters.

I'm sure in many places you can put a super cheap door and lock, yet put 2 non-hidden cameras and an alarm there and they'll prevent a break in better than any Bilock or Medecco.

[globallockytoo]

Agreed. As a product to deter....they are definitely an option. Albeit....a more expensive option.

if I wanted to make a door more secure...there are other options available at significantly more competitive costs that alarms or cameras.

For example:

A solid wooden door with a good quality Bilock or Protec deadbolt installed and a steel jamb (preferably concrete filled).

A cheaper door with a Bilock or Protec deadbolt, a wooden jamb with a Strikemaster II jamb re-inforcer or a Door Jamb Armor device fitted, suring up the door and jamb. These products are well known by law-enforcement and security consultants as physical devices that enhance a doors security and have been known to prevent crowbar or kicking enty.

It all boils down to what the consumer wants and is prepared to pay for. as a locksmith or security consultant, the opportunities to share your knowledge and opinions about security products, benefit your customer especially if they request your honest opinion about what you think they might need.

There are companies like ADT (for example - in USA) who will install a $2000 alarm system in your home for free but charge you $49 per month monitoring on a minimum 5 year agreement. You are locked in for something that doesnt improve your physical security, but yes it does act as a deterrant and it does inform of surreptitious entry.

A Bilock deadbolt with a Strikemaster II product can be installed for about $280 per door (depending). permanent, non electronic, physical security device that deters without informing. And you are not locked into an agreement that costs you something you may never actually need.

See what I mean?

[Trip Doctor]

Yea, I dont know much about the prices of either, so you're probably right there. Hell, $2000 plus 50 a month seems like a pretty fat bottle in the ass.


But really, I say explosive booby trap .

[globallockytoo]

Yea, I dont know much about the prices of either, so you're probably right there. Hell, $2000 plus 50 a month seems like a pretty fat bottle in the donkey.


But really, I say explosive booby trap .

Alarm systems dont have to be that expensive....but this company will install it for free and give you the hardware conditional upon you signing a 5 year monitoring agreement.

That's how they make their moneys...over the long term....and also on maintenance. It's a con. They say it's a $2000 alarm system, but they charge you $3000 over 5 years.

I can self monitor with a gsm alarm system for $600 (parts) and a $10 per month sim card.

no contract.....no BS

[globallockytoo]

Not withstanding the sidetracking here about alarms. The point of this thread is to discuss peoples opinions about lock and key systems. Specifically Bilock, Abloy and other possible bump proof and bump resistant key systems.

Does the above discussion help the OP?

[Trip Doctor]

Maybe.

Maintenanceguy might have not answered the main question Richard Medway had about Medeccos or such locks, he at least offered some reasonable insight.

No sidetracking was intended.

[globallockytoo]

I met a locksmith yesterday who informed me that he had installed 2 grade 1 Medeco deadbolts and 2 grade 2 entrance sets for $680, in place of Kwikset and Schlage handles.

Yes Medeco, make some quality products but $220 list for 1 deadbolt that is known to be able to be bumped or picked...seems a bit excessive when you consider that a Bilock double cylinder deadbolt lists at $139.

He said he knew about the recent talk about bumping and picking Medeco, but he would still sell it and keep on recommending it because he says that the difficulty in bypassing their products is greater than any perceived risk

[zeke79]

In most cases the benefits outweigh the risk when installing medeco. On my home if my only high security choice was medeco I would install it and not be worried about it as it is just a home and not a business with sensitive documents.

In the case where sensitive documents such a trade secrets of a company, government buildings, etc I would never install medeco due to the vulnerabilities. In this situation, for the right person the risk is worth the reward in some of these places and that is why I would never recommend medeco in such cases.

I agree with Globallockytoo on the alarm issues. While they are a great deterrent, they are only a piece of the puzzle in setting up a true high security environment.

[lockpick1968]

I would say to go with abloy, would give the tighter security your looking for in a lock.

But like the old saying goes, Nothing is 100% full proof either..
You wouldn't go wrong with the Abloy and should be quite satisfied with it.

[HeadHunterCEO]

Dear Group,
I am responsible for security for a significant non-profit organisation. Once we learned about lock-bumping, we've been thinking of changing over to Medeco locks , until we heard/saw a medeco lock being bumped/picked a week ago.
we have also been looking at the Bi-lock system, and wondered of you professionals have opinions on this. Talking to two local locksmiths, including my local Medeco dealer, it was obvious that they were more interested in moving their stock than my security problems. I can understand this, but only up to a point...
Any ideas?
Richard Medway Los Angeles

Anybody clever enough to bump or pick your medeco is going to get you no matter what brand of rim cylinder you secure your devices with.

bi-lock mort cylinder will wrench out of the door the same as a medeco.

1/4" Mr.Twister will own them all

Your locksmith tried to make you understand that you are facing a zero sum gain.

[HeadHunterCEO]

Dear Group,
I am responsible for security for a significant non-profit organisation. Once we learned about lock-bumping, we've been thinking of changing over to Medeco locks , until we heard/saw a medeco lock being bumped/picked a week ago.
we have also been looking at the Bi-lock system, and wondered of you professionals have opinions on this. Talking to two local locksmiths, including my local Medeco dealer, it was obvious that they were more interested in moving their stock than my security problems. I can understand this, but only up to a point...
Any ideas?
Richard Medway Los Angeles

Anybody clever enough to bump or pick your medeco is going to get you no matter what brand of rim cylinder you secure your devices with.

bi-lock mort cylinder will wrench out of the door the same as a medeco.

1/4" Mr.Twister will own them all

Your locksmith tried to make you understand that you are facing a zero sum gain.

[mcm757207]

I met a locksmith yesterday who informed me that he had installed 2 grade 1 Medeco deadbolts and 2 grade 2 entrance sets for $680, in place of Kwikset and Schlage handles.

Yes Medeco, make some quality products but $220 list for 1 deadbolt that is known to be able to be bumped or picked...seems a bit excessive when you consider that a Bilock double cylinder deadbolt lists at $139.

He said he knew about the recent talk about bumping and picking Medeco, but he would still sell it and keep on recommending it because he says that the difficulty in bypassing their products is greater than any perceived risk

$220 for a Medeco deadbolt is way too expensive, the shop I work at sells them new for $150.

[globallockytoo]

I met a locksmith yesterday who informed me that he had installed 2 grade 1 Medeco deadbolts and 2 grade 2 entrance sets for $680, in place of Kwikset and Schlage handles.

Yes Medeco, make some quality products but $220 list for 1 deadbolt that is known to be able to be bumped or picked...seems a bit excessive when you consider that a Bilock double cylinder deadbolt lists at $139.

He said he knew about the recent talk about bumping and picking Medeco, but he would still sell it and keep on recommending it because he says that the difficulty in bypassing their products is greater than any perceived risk

$220 for a Medeco deadbolt is way too expensive, the shop I work at sells them new for $150.

Medeco Maxum M3 deadbolt lists @ $226.50.
You can sell them at whatever you want. I guess they just figured they should sell at list. You cant blame them can you? Totally within their rights to sell at retail price. But as long as they dont overcharge....they will get what they can.....this is good business if you ask me.

If the customer had shopped around they might have got a better price too, perhaps they were happy with the other services that company provides.

[globallockytoo]

HeadhunterCEO makes a good point. Although I do believe the OP was asking for opinions on NDE, specifically picking and bumping.

There wouldnt be many products that couldnt be defeated by a drill.

Although the new KnockNlock product would be an option worth considering.....no physical keyhole. Better than Bilock, Medeco or any other conventional system.

Cost is another issue.