Help with a BEST lock

by **dmux** » 19 Aug 2008 13:29

seen one of those the other day at cabelas, they use it to lock the guns up

by **datagram** » 19 Aug 2008 23:18

Can you tell if it has the old-model control sleeve? If so, you can make a little tension tool to only activate the control shear line and remove it : )

Detailed in M. Blaze's SFIC paper linked earlier.

by **ady1989** » 20 Aug 2008 0:58

I am not sure if it's the old one, but if I had the correct measurements for such a tool I'd make one and try it out. Can anyone please provide a template?

by **freakparade3** » 20 Aug 2008 8:21

ady1989 wrote:I am not sure if it's the old one, but if I had the correct measurements for such a tool I'd make one and try it out. Can anyone please provide a template?

Do you have the core out of the lock? If it's the old style it will have holes at the bottom of the sleeve, if it's the new style it will have grooves so the special SFIC tension wrench won't grab the sleeve.

by **datagram** » 20 Aug 2008 11:13

ady1989 wrote:I am not sure if it's the old one, but if I had the correct measurements for such a tool I'd make one and try it out. Can anyone please provide a template?

You should be able to feel the holes by feeling around with an upside-down hook or diamond. Don't have a template though, sorry. When I made a tool for this long ago I just used a cylinder I had outside of a padlock to gauge the spacing.

dg

by **straightpick** » 20 Aug 2008 20:12

Actually, what you see stamped on the face (face stamping)is what is called a "blind code". Cores are also stamped on the side, you have to remove the core to see them. A blind code is a number assigned to a particular core so it can be identified without giving any information about the keyway, position in the master key system, door location, etc. Keys in a master key system are also stamped with a blind code. Essentially, if you found a key stamped "3AS45",you would have no idea where that key worked unless you had access to the system. From the stamping on the core, with access to the system, you would know where that core was assigned, what keys operated it and what the pinning was for that core.

by **ridinplugspinnaz** » 25 Aug 2008 3:07

Wow, that's a GREAT lock to just be given! I hope you enjoy picking, given that it's a Best SFIC system I'm betting there's about a snowball's chance in hell that you're gonna find someone to sell you blanks for that keyway

Here's a question for the more experienced among the group: what do you do to apply a force to the control shear line on the newer locks with wider grooves at the bottom of the core? It seems pretty obvious that traditional SFIC tension tools are going to be frustrated by that design modification, and the fact that you are picking essentially TWO shear lines simultaneously suggests to me that you're not going to get any useful feedback from the pin stacks unless you're applying a moment ONLY to the control shear line.

by **ridinplugspinnaz** » 25 Aug 2008 3:16

ady1989 wrote:I am not sure if it's the old one, but if I had the correct measurements for such a tool I'd make one and try it out. Can anyone please provide a template?

Best SFIC cores are all generally 6- or 7-pin designs; if you can find a picture of a key online with a scale bar reference in the picture, you can extrapolate the distance between pins in order to derive a measurement. As the Matt Blaze article indicates, the holes in the sleeve are for rapid rekeying, so it follows that they'll be evenly spaced.

Actually, give me a bit to dig up an old key I have from one of those systems, once I find it I can do some ballpark measurements that'll tell you how far apart the pin stacks are, and how wide they're likely to be. I'll edit this post with a diagram later on if I can find the key.

by **keysman** » 25 Aug 2008 3:21

ady1989 wrote:I am not sure if it's the old one, but if I had the correct measurements for such a tool I'd make one and try it out. Can anyone please provide a template?

the spacing is .150 inches center to center

by **ridinplugspinnaz** » 25 Aug 2008 3:47

keysman wrote:
ady1989 wrote:I am not sure if it's the old one, but if I had the correct measurements for such a tool I'd make one and try it out. Can anyone please provide a template?

the spacing is .150 inches center to center

Whoops, I can't seem to edit on this board. Anyway, I found the key and can corroborate that .150" (~3.8 mm) center-to-center is correct. As for the diameter of the pin stacks themselves, measuring the bittings on my key suggest they're somewhere between 1.7 - 2.00 millimeter in diameter. If it were me, I'd start with 2 mm and slim down from there. Can't tell you what the depth of the tool should be, but that's the one dimension that you should be able to determine pretty easily from the lock itself.

by **maxxx** » 26 Aug 2008 1:30

If you picked that lock to the shear line, you are the ayatolla of rock and rolla. Most really good pickers pick that lock to the control key gig. The pin stacks on A1s are huge. 36 squared combinations. Even if you pick one stack, there is no way it will be the right one. Multiply that by 6 with each stack having 5 or more shear lines. Not a chance you picked that lock.

Most of the drivers are thinner than a whisker. Times 6 stacks? yer blowin smoke. :roll:

by **maxxx** » 26 Aug 2008 1:40

Oops I forgot. There are about a dozen keyways for Best A1s. TD is my favorite. Its as tight as a bulls rear end at fly time. It looks to me that the lock picture you posted is similar. You cant even get a pick as thin as a piece of paper in there.

Sorry to rain on your parade.

by **Jaakko** » 26 Aug 2008 4:58

maxxx, I'm confused. Are you claiming the task was near impossible or that the OP somehow faked it? If the latter, then you don't know about picking that lock anything...

by **mkultra23** » 26 Aug 2008 10:38

They are pickable, easier if they're master keyed of course. Try using a very thin hook or half-diamond. Picking the control shearline is an option but it can be a pain getting the IC tension wrenches teeth firmly locked into the ejector pin holes of the control sleeve. I have on occasion accidently picked the control with a normal tension wrench but it's hit and miss, where as with the IC wrench, tension is directly placed on the control shear line. If you have to pick a group of these you should look up the depth information for whatever system the locks are pinned to (A2,A3,A4 etc.). This way you can eject the pins and decode the control key with a dial caliper or micrometer; and with the disection of a few cores, extrapolate the master key.

by **mkultra23** » 26 Aug 2008 10:55

wow, maxx, 16777215 posts!

Help with a BEST lock

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