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UAP zero lift antibump cylinders

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

Re: UAP zero lift antibump cylinders

Postby Rickthepick » 25 May 2010 3:55

It definately needs testing :p
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Re: UAP zero lift antibump cylinders

Postby Schuyler » 25 May 2010 5:31

However, that would mean you'd need more than six keys, surely - you'd have to make a set with 0 and 10 cuts in several relative positions (although MACS would limit the number of combinations and therefore the number of keys you'd need).


No - 2 big things.

1: As other high speed photo/video has shown, it isn't the simple newton's cradle effect people describe/assume. The amount of force you're putting into the tiny brass parts of the lock is far more than they can really tolerate. Think 2 or 3 collisions per strike, not one smooth collision. So - as long as your pin can get back below the shear line, you can bump the lock. Really a bump key is a poor man's pick gun. They do exactly the same thing. Even the PR material stated that they could bump the lock when it only had a 10 pin and no 0 pin. That tells us immediately that the only pin we need to compromise is the 0.

2: You're not going to try to bump this lock w/a 999 key, you're going to use 10 cuts, which people already use to bump normal cylinders. And the key that is pulled out/sprung/hot glued/whatever you do to get it to pull out a bit after each strike isn't going to slide the key so far that the prior peak will interfere with the 10.

Not that it doesn't need to be tested, but again, they state explicitly in their PR that they were able to bump their lock when it had just a 10 pin, so they are telling us that all we need to do is attack their 1 pin.
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Re: UAP zero lift antibump cylinders

Postby EmCee » 25 May 2010 6:20

Yes, they do say the 10 with a 1, 2 or 3 could be bumped.

I really don't know enough about bumping. I can't see how a key with all 10 cuts (bar the 0 cut) would work - surely it would miss all the other pins?

I see what you're saying in point 1, but would it not be very difficult in practice and more a matter of luck? With a pick gun you can vary the torsion quickly and easily between each operation of the gun: with a bump key, you have to put torsion on as you hit it so wouldn't the 10 pin bind immediately, and unless it was the first to bind, easing the torsion would allow other pins to drop?

Cheers...
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Re: UAP zero lift antibump cylinders

Postby Schuyler » 25 May 2010 7:01

Again - it's not so elegant as all that. You are going to see several collisions. The 10 pin will be shot up and back down very quickly in the space of time that each bump takes. It's not about getting it to bind first, it's about finding the path through the chaos that you always get when bumping a lock.

And no, 10 cuts still contact the tips of the pins and the 10 pin doesn't actually sit any further down in the lock than the normal pins, it's just very long. All of the pins (save for the 0) still sit at the same level when no key is in the lock. As long as the material of the key can make contact with the tips of the pins, you can bump them.
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