Please help identify and close safe!

[Papa's Safe]

We would write the instructions as:

4 times left to the 80
3 times right to the 10
2 times left to the 60
1 time right until the dial stops.

How are you counting?

I wrote the instructions as i was given them. If I were to put them in my own words, they would read something like the instructions to the master lock of my school locker 40 years ago:

"Turn dial to the left 4 times and stop at 80
Turn dial to the right past 80 twice and stop at 10
Turn dial to the left past 10 once and stop at 60
Then turn the dial to the right as far as it will go.
rotate door anti-clockwise to open."

[cledry]

Safe dials always use descending turns without jumping. So to go from 4 turns to 2 turns is incorrect. There is a standard to be adhered to in writing out combinations.

[MacGyver101]

Safe dials always use descending turns without jumping.

Just to help clear the confusion (and/or possibly add some ), I think the procedure that Papa's Safe is describing is:

Turn dial to the left at least three full revolutions (4 will really make sure you've picked up all the wheels) and stop at 80
Turn dial to the right past 80 twice and stop at 10
Turn dial to the left past 10 once and stop at 60
Then turn the dial to the right as far as it will go.
rotate door anti-clockwise to open.

. . . and cledry is, quite rightly, pointing out that the extra (the fourth) turn to the left at the beginning isn't necessary, and wouldn't be included if you were a safe tech (or manufacturer) writing out proper instructions.

However, the combination will still work, whether you start by dialing it 3 or 4 (or more) times left, stopping at 80.

[Squelchtone]

Safe dials always use descending turns without jumping.

Just to help clear the confusion (and/or possibly add some ), I think the procedure that Papa's Safe is describing is:

Turn dial to the left at least three full revolutions (4 will really make sure you've picked up all the wheels) and stop at 80
Turn dial to the right past 80 twice and stop at 10
Turn dial to the left past 10 once and stop at 60
Then turn the dial to the right as far as it will go.
rotate door anti-clockwise to open.

. . . and cledry is, quite rightly, pointing out that the extra (the fourth) turn to the left at the beginning isn't necessary, and wouldn't be included if you were a safe tech (or manufacturer) writing out proper instructions.

However, the combination will still work, whether you start by dialing it 3 or 4 (or more) times left, stopping at 80.

Hmmm,

Are you sure it isn't Turn dial to the left past 60 once and stop at 60 ? You have to rial past your target number a couple times while dialing a safe so that you can pick up the correct wheel which actually has 60 for its combination.

At least that's how my safe is.. my combo is 0-85-58 then 40 to drop in at 25 to stop.

So I dial 4 full revolutions to the left at stop on 0 the 4th time
Then i dial right and pass 85 2 times until you stop on 85 the 3rd time
Now dial to the left and pass 58 once, and stop on 58 the 2nd time
Now dial to the right, hear click at 40 (that's the drop in), then dial stops by itself at 25 and I turn handle to retract bolt work and open door.

edit: I just found this video, he explains it pretty well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEYjgOFKR1U
(I like his way of saying you 'sneak up' on the number so you dont turn right past it. A lot of people don't realize how accurate these things are, off by a number and the lock wont open, not as sloppy as your old high school locker padlock)

Squelchtone

[cledry]

Correct; you count the turns past your target number not the previous number.

I see a lot of customers doing the at least 4 turns to 0 before starting the dialing procedure. There is nothing wrong with this practice but it isn't necessary, and it isn't mentioned in the industry standard instruction sheet that comes with a new 3 wheel combination lock.

Lockmasters in their safe manipulation course had a nice diagram showing dialing procedure which we had reduced in size and made into a rubber stamp. We stamp the back of a business card and just put the combination in the blanks. It saves confusion for the customer (usually), we always run through the procedure with the customer as well and let them open the safe 3 times consistently.

Generally it takes longer to wait whilst people try the combination than it does to actually change the combination.

[Sulconst2]

Hey
Got the same lock, diebold 900, on a unlocked round lug door cash chest.
The dial plate was pried off but everything else works.
Thinking I can remove the dial and spindle, measure to see if it's 1/4 or 5/16
Then look for a replacement and install. Then get a change key for a new combo.
Sound right?

Pics coming

[Sulconst2]

Default title upload by motoblur by sulconst2, on Flickr



Default title upload by motoblur by sulconst2, on Flickr


Default title upload by motoblur by sulconst2, on Flickr


Default title upload by motoblur by sulconst2, on Flickr


Default title upload by motoblur by sulconst2, on Flickr

[Teddy Picker]

To everyone who is posting their safe combinations: I sure hope you don't plan on keeping anything important in your safe without changing the combination.

[Bob Jim Bob]

I would suspect they are changing the numbers just to give you an example.

[GWiens2001]

My actual combo is 22-75-38-turn to open. However, since this S&G lock is not mounted to anything more secure than a couple of wood boards, and is for manipulation practice, not too worried about anyone knowing the combo, which gets changed from time to time anyway.

Gordon

[Teddy Picker]

I just worry because I've seen some of the same things with computer passwords:

1. Nobody can find my password who would know how to use it... except anyone who uses Google.
2. I'll never use that password for anything important, until I forget that I already posted it online.
3. I'll never send anything important to that email account: only everyone else will send me confidential information.

[MrWizard]

Thank you all for your advice!

After taking the cover off, and watching the lock operate while inputing the combination, I determined that the instructions I had were incorrect.

instead of:

"Left 4 times and stop at 80
Right 3 times and stop at 10
Left 2 times and stop at 60
Then turn right as far as it will go.
rotate door anti-clockwise to open."

the correct solution was:

"Left 4 times and stop at 80
Right 2 times and stop at 10
Left 1 times and stop at 60
Then turn right as far as it will go.
rotate door anti-clockwise to open."

while i had it apart i cleaned and re-greased the mechanisms. it needed it, there were a lot of steel shavings in it.

it's now operating better than before.

thank you again for all the help!

Here is the real situation with your safe combo as I have recreated it here to be sure this is what is really going on.

The drive cam is splined at RH installation which makes the actual drop in point 60.

Whoever changed the combination either on purpose or by mistake made your safe really a 2 number combination 4 turns left to 80 - 2 turns right to 10.

By setting the combination 4 turns left to 80 and then only 2 turns right to 10 makes all 3 wheels lined up and turning the dial left to 60 is the drop in point on the drive cam so all you have to do is turn it right the bolt pulls back.

So really both wheels 1 and 2 are set to 80 the 3rd wheel is set to 10 and the drive cam is being used as your 3rd number 60 which is way wrong to do but it works.

Hence you have a 2 number combination because the last number on the lock box being mounted in RH position with the drive cam being splined in the RH position the drop in number is always 60 no matter what the other numbers are it can't be any other way.

The safe really needs to have the combination reset properly. With the drive cam being splined in RH position the new last number in your combination cannot be 60 the last number to be safe should not be at least 10 numbers left or right of 60 which is the drop in point. This is the common rule is combination setting.

So example for proper working combo for a 3 wheel pack which you have could be:

4 turns left to 80
3 turns right to 10
2 turns left to 30
1 turn right to stop
Which the drop in point will always be 60 and dial will stop turning close to around 47.



I have proven this is the condition that is happening with your safe I have it recreated in front of me to check it.

Richard

[GWiens2001]

Mr. Wizard,

I love it! Some people are just so good at what they do.

Gordon

[MrWizard]

I would like to add the beginning 4 turns left is in fact needed in your 2 combo combination to work especially if the dial is turned right 4 or more turns before hand I checked that as well.

[MrWizard]

Thanks Gordon

I try to be sure before I post something and I am 100% sure of this situation. Although some may try to prove otherwise I would say recreate it and see for yourself.

Richard