Doing a project with locks, and need some help.

[Squelchtone]

Thanks for the speedy reply, but without messing with the key. I would like any key that enters the lock to be permanently jammed until the lock is dismantled.

Engineer, I think the OP does in fact want all keys to be trapped.. I don't see the point, why bother having a lock on that door to begin with.. it's almost like a lure to see if anyone will come up and try a bump key or non-working key in that lock just out of some kind of temptation.

sams_choice.. can you please tell us the point of this? Is someone messing with your locks and you want to make them look stupid when they try it again?

Thanks
Squelchtone

[Engineer]

Right...! Thanks for clearing that up for me. Could this be for playing a practical joke on someone?

[5thcorps]

Can't say I really see the point to this one. especially after all that work and studying just to play a joke on someone.

[sams choice]

Haha sorry I cause so much confusion. This is for an art project. The mouse trap is not bent yet. I have to bend the mouse trap so that it makes a v shape so that one single point hits the key in that tight spot. I was lazy and did not photograph this.The mouse trap does indeed strike the exposed part of the key and does in fact, warp it bad enough that I can not rip it out with pliers, nor hammer it out, easily. The only way I was able to get the key back out, was to drimmel it clean. I am making 4 locks like this and they go inside of a box. Though seems mundane, I find it to be an interesting sculpture piece.

[ToolyMcgee]

Ohhhh. So locks in appearance only. That makes alot more sense. So why did you go to the trouble of messing with the mouse trap at all? Wouldn't it be easier to use a mallet and punch to tap a bend in the key? Obviously I'm missing something... You should post a photo of the project when it's done. Sounds pretty neat.

-Tooly

[sams choice]

I is a box that says "Your house key will open these locks". It is going to be on display in a gallery, and if you are dumb enough to put your key into it, it will eat your key. It is called "The KEYper"

Cheers!

[ToolyMcgee]

So it is a key trap. If you put that sign on it with no warnings, then it isn't a question of IF someone is dumb enough, it is just a matter of time. I see it causing problems, although I'm having a guilty chuckle over it. Some latchkey kid puts his house key in it, or Joe schmoe's only apartment key is rendered useless. If your key trap is as effective as you say, then maybe you should look into a less permanent fusion.

You could use a lock with a loose plug retainer (the screw on kind) then use master drivers to work through each factory depth. It would frustrate efforts to remove a key that found a shearline because the pins would look to retreat into the bible when the key was pulled out, but would be forced instead into the plug shell "trapping" the key. You couldn't make each chamber hold every cut depth, but you could possibly hit every other depth. Chamber 1 catches factory bottom cuts and 2 cuts, chamber 2 catches 1 cuts and 3 cuts, etc. You could need two locks to increase the chances of "trapping" a key, but it would be a moment of panic, followed by a sigh of relief instead of the chore of replaceing a key. I know, you could use the locks where you have already decreased the number of pin chambers, and that would increase the chance of a key meeting a shearline. Place a compression spring behind the plug to force it outward, that way the key will enter smooth, but if it finds the shearline you will have to push in on the plug face to remove it. Actually... instead of master pins you could use the shortest key pin, and a tall spool to achieve the same effect. It wouldn't turn the plug, but it would bind the loose plug and trap the key unless you pressed the plug face. It would work, and it would be 1 lock. The trick would be fine tuning the force the spring exerted on the plug to accept keys smoothly, but bind the drivers when someone attempted to remove the key. Simpler, and you could have 1 operating key.

Sorry for the length. I'm just thinking through the keyboard trying to work it out. Hope you find it as useful as much as I have enjoyed pondering the problem.

-Tooly

[sams choice]

Toolymcgee,

Just as other people have had problems, I have a hard time imagining what you are talking about. Kinda sounds like the first route I tried to take. I used the a size two pin that would catch the key if it had a size 1 pin on it., but if it had no size 1 pins it would just roll out of the lock. For the sake of art, I really do not mind smashing someone's key. It will be an interesting lesson into curiosity ahha. I have another idea for a lock piece where I get 9 locks, KW1, and put all the different sizes in each lock, Just one pin at the base. This will allow anyones lock to easily open 1 out of the 9 locks. Each lock was going to be hooked up to a alarm, or a siren. This type of interaction is fun. I know that they will be able to easily open the other locks too, but that is only if they know how a lock works.

Thanks for the input Toolymcgee. Could you try and possibly make a crude drawing of what you mean?

[ToolyMcgee]

I'm crap at photoshop. So I'll try to talk it out again before I just take pictures of what I mean. First, forget all the master pin rambleing I did, because it was over complicating things. Now, if you loosen the plug retainer by a thread or two, and put the shortest or next to shortest key pin in 1 chamber paired with a spool tall enough to bind at the shearline. Then with just the 1 stack inside, apply gentle pressure to the back of the plug with your finger and you should see what I mean. The loose plug allows the spool to false set, and with 3 to 5 spools inside at a false set it would trap the key inside pretty well, unless you pushed in on the plug face to pull your key out so they wouldn't false set. Like the way you need to ease tension off your wrench to work past a false set, you would need to hold the plug inside the cylinder to get past the false set. Is that more clear?

Your finger would be replaced by a compression spring inside the box that puts pressure on the back of the loose plug. Other than that it's just a lock binding on spool pins in a different direction than rotationally, and you could cut a key that would turn it, so it would still be a full lock, just one that's a tad loose and jams your key inside. Without the spring it would still catch a key because the friction caused by trying to remove it would pull the plug out that fraction of a mm needed to engage the spool pins, but the spring behind the plug guarantees it will happen as long as the key doesn't land the wider diameter tip of the spool in the shearline and prevent a false set from the rest of the pins. You could use a master key pin shorter than the deepest key cut to keep that from happening, but then you would need a pretty tall spool. I don't know how else to explain... just drop a stack in and give it a shot. The spool just has to be tall enough to clear the shearline when no key is inside. Obviously.

Thanks for considering the idea, I was kind of all over the place in the last post. Do you still need a demo?

-Tooly

[raimundo]

How about a victor #2 leghold trap in front of the keyway, you can get the hand as well as the key, and when you come in the next morning, you will find the hand chewed off in the trap, anyone one who wont show thier hand out of the sleeve is suspect.

[unjust]

i think your best method will be a spring loaded file/rasp inside the core. any key inserted will be held (saw teeth digging in deeper the harder you pull) but the correct key would turn the core removing the spring pressure on the cam, and allowing a minor spring to push the cam off the key. a small catch would hold the cam off the key so it can be removed, until a new key is inserted, re-engaging the catch spring.

an external release could be included, say on the reverse of the core, so that from *inside* you can release any key.

of course in practical terms, this means that if you put it on a door, you need another way into the room/building or the first time you put mistakenly put the wrong key in, you're drilling out the core to get in and release it.

[poor paperclip picker]

you can do this by modifying the key, file down one of the ramps so the pins will catch on the key, like in hte picture I added where the ramp on the first cut is filed off, some customers would ask me to do this for their screen door locks.

Could that picture of the key be the same key from the bumpmylock.com add that has been on the left hand side of my screen all day?