Active keyways

[Lelandwelds]

One of the trade groups I belong to has a regular column where they highlight mom and pop shops who thrive in the shadow of a big box store. The articles have common themes.

They play to their strengths. They have better product knowledge. They are nimble and can immediately stock some newly introduced item

They point out solutions for poor big box recommendations. This can lead to higher margin accessory sale or the customer may return big box purchase. They promote services. The wage slave in a big box who tries to hide when approached will never give good service.

They reach out to wage slave. Mention your love of difficult, complicated customer needs. Mention love of special orders. Make his job easier.

[Lelandwelds]

I had a buddy who would host homebrew and BBQ partys with the original "McGyver" on the VCR and big screen. We would die laughing every time he welded up broken piston rods with a quarter and a 12 volt car battery. Or, whatever.

Great fun. Gotta love excapist Hollywood TV.

[demux]

Y'all gotta admit, as a group, y'all are a bit paranoid (suspicious?) and curiously against advertising or self promotion.

I wouldn't say "all", but yes I think this is a problem in the locksmith industry, certainly more than many others. We have a few brick-and-mortar locksmith shops in my area. One of them certainly fits that bill. If you walk in and start speaking the lingo, or acting like you know anything about anything, you'll get a suspicious look and they get territorial. Another shop is quite the opposite, if you walk in and seem clueful they're happy to talk to you about anything and everything, show you all the details of how everything they sell works, etc. They're also the one that advertises locally and is actively growing their business. You can probably guess which shop I frequent. I've had several times where I've walked in there for a "quick purchase" and spent an hour or more debating the finer points of the security of their latest product offering, or getting a complete inside tour of how their new access control software works.

The point being, yes I agree the industry needs to shed the whole, "If you're not an ALOA member you shouldn't know anything about locks" mentality. And that dropping that attitude is probably good for business as well. I think most of the folks on this forum have figured that out, and the stuff that is taboo is that way for a reason. And in fact it's not really even taboo, it's just they don't want the highschool age James Bond 1337 h4x0r wannabe's who get here through Google to find it quite so easily. I haven't personally tried yet, but from reading the rules and the comments from the mod team, it doesn't seem to be that difficult to get access to the advanced area here once you've built up a bit of a reputation...

[Lelandwelds]

I have been trying to coax some longer more detailed discussions out of people. I have read a lot on this forum. I must say my observations mirror yours. This forum seems worth the involvement.

Many of the other places I have been either fan the flames or everything devolves into a Ford vs Chevy argument. Plus, I knew nothing about this subject and that needed correcting. I am picking stuff up daily. Fun, fun, fun.

[GWiens2001]

I have been trying to coax some longer more detailed discussions out of people. I have read a lot on this forum. I must say my observations mirror yours. This forum seems worth the involvement.

Many of the other places I have been either fan the flames or everything devolves into a Ford vs Chevy argument. Plus, I knew nothing about this subject and that needed correcting. I am picking stuff up daily. Fun, fun, fun.

Oh, you want to debate Ford vs. Chevy, eh? Well, in my opinion...



Gordon

[cledry]

I am one of those people who never thought about a locksmith's capabilities. Y'all gotta admit, as a group, y'all are a bit paranoid (suspicious?) and curiously against advertising or self promotion. Compare your advertising to car commercials or any trade show open to the public. Even this site, which is promoting free and open discussion, has topics where " we don't go there". ( Just saying. Not complaining.)

The y'all that set up the forum with restricted areas are not locksmiths but lock hobbyists.

We "locksmiths" are definitely not against advertising or self promotion, it has always been our goal to separate ourselves as a skilled trade that can attract the same respect as electricians and plumbers. Unfortunately our industry has been the easy target of scammers and folks who call themselves a locksmith but aren't qualified. These people will advertise, they will quote low prices. So yes we get a bit suspicious when someone comes into our shop and asks lots of questions about how to do this, alarm bells go off and we immediately wonder is this one of these competitors that is going to hang out a shingle and call himself a locksmith and charge $30 service calls and place the industry firmly back into the tinkerer, DIY, handyman image.

When I get folks walk into the shop for a chat, that's fine, but I really am not interested in talking about how to pick this or that, I would rather talk about the new pub with 36 taps that just opened up. We are also a tad busy generally, not much time to stop and share the intricacies of locks; it isn't quite like Floyd's Barbershop.

I did have an interesting one a few weeks back though. A young man stopped in the shop and plonked down a couple of padlocks with no keys. Said he had no keys and wanted to know the price. I told him and he agreed and left them. Before he left he said that they were open but he locked them together, he mentioned that he was an expert lock picker and told me that he couldn't get these locks open for some reason. He then showed me this beautiful case full of picks and asked what I use, so I showed him my old HPC case with a few picks in it.

A couple of days later I called him to come and get his locks. The first words out of his mouth was, "no luck huh"? I replied, no they are ready with keys. He came and paid and asked if it was difficult, I said not at all, just another lock no big deal.

Truth was they were a real pain, he had purposely (I suspect) tried to make it difficult. The pins were arranged so it would be very difficult to pick, in fact I couldn't pick one. They also had some sort of heavy oil and grit in each lock. I soaked the locks to clean them overnight, and then I impressioned one, the other I couldn't pick, bump or impression, so I drilled the rivet out, shimmed the cylinder, made a key, reassembled with a suitably grungy rivet that looked like the one originally in the lock.

I lost money on the job, but it was one of the most satisfying jobs I have ever done.

[billdeserthills]

I am one of those people who never thought about a locksmith's capabilities. Y'all gotta admit, as a group, y'all are a bit paranoid (suspicious?) and curiously against advertising or self promotion. Compare your advertising to car commercials or any trade show open to the public. Even this site, which is promoting free and open discussion, has topics where " we don't go there". ( Just saying. Not complaining.)

Many of us have good reason for our 'paranoia'
I have been called by criminals in the past. In fact I have in the past picked open a door
for someone who waited for me to leave and then 'cleaned out' the home I had just opened
for her. Fortunately I had written down that person's driver's license info & a neighbor saw her
driving away with a trailer loaded with the belongings of the real owner & called the police.

I have had several inquiries about opening safes for 'a split' of the contents--Something that no actual
safe owner will say to me...

Also I have mixed feelings on the subject of selling thousands of $$$ worth of high security locks
when any criminal can simply toss a convenient rock through the back window and get in the house--
Can I truly and honestly say that I lost money for not selling a client something they do not need
when I think I am doing that client a favor? This is the reason why I have thousands invested in
ASSA and Medeco locks that I rarely try to sell, although it seemed like a good idea when I bought them, originally

[Lelandwelds]

Jim

I must admit I find your story entertaining and satisfying.

As a card carrying member of the public at large, I can't recall ever seeing a an ad for a locksmith with the exception of Popalock. I would not call the guy who showed up a locksmith. I am bombarded by commercials for HVAC and plumbers. I can name several even though I have hired exactly one AC and two plumbers in thirty years. Surprising to me, I have done business with a locksmith seven times. ( Five vehicle related and two weird key copies.) The vehicle jobs introduced me to two scammers. The two physical shops were the ones who make me think "scrapyard needed" when I think locksmith.

The first cussed and kicked out the customer after me because he said he was here only because the big box store couldnt copy his key. (Exact thing I did but I didnt feel the need to comment.)

The second all but handcrafted a key from scratch for a tiny amount of money considering the time involved. He told me bumping was not a new thing. Introduced me to Medico which he said I didnt need because my locks were not the weak points of my house. He then reassured and scared me about a half dozen different ways in two minutes. My awareness of locks started there. I need to spend some money in his shop.

Billdeserthills

I once had a lucrative contract offered if I provided a vehicle. I've had offers for a split if I would throw merchandise into the dumpster. I've had offers if I would.... you get the idea... I once had a stripper offer "outside time" if I would pay part of her monthly rent.

I believe druggies, scammers, and thieves rub shoulders with everyone.

[gumptrick]

Also I have mixed feelings on the subject of selling thousands of $$$ worth of high security locks
when any criminal can simply toss a convenient rock through the back window and get in the house--
Can I truly and honestly say that I lost money for not selling a client something they do not need
when I think I am doing that client a favor?

I think this is something that just about every trade has to deal with. A car, boat, or motorcycle dealer surely sees people come in and buy vehicles that they don't have anywhere near the skill required to get the full use out of, or perhaps even getting behind the controls of at all. I know for a fact that I have machined expensive lightweight titanium motorcycle parts for customers who would be better off spending that money on riding lessons and trackdays. I'm sure that the people who sell expensive cosmetics have clients that have no clue how to apply them properly. I would imagine that art dealers have customers come in and buy something they have no idea how to appreciate, they just think "that yellow in the painting matches my drapes". A friend of mine works in the gun industry and every week she encounters new shooters or persons of small physical stature that insist on buying massively powerful handguns even though she knows well they cannot shoot them accurately or safely. I have known people to spend massive amounts of money on expensive power-building upgrades for their muscle car yet ignore the fact that their suspension and tires can't handle the power.

[dll932]

I am one of those people who never thought about a locksmith's capabilities. Y'all gotta admit, as a group, y'all are a bit paranoid (suspicious?) and curiously against advertising or self promotion. Compare your advertising to car commercials or any trade show open to the public. Even this site, which is promoting free and open discussion, has topics where " we don't go there". ( Just saying. Not complaining.)

Many of us have good reason for our 'paranoia'
I have been called by criminals in the past. In fact I have in the past picked open a door
for someone who waited for me to leave and then 'cleaned out' the home I had just opened
for her. Fortunately I had written down that person's driver's license info & a neighbor saw her
driving away with a trailer loaded with the belongings of the real owner & called the police.

I have had several inquiries about opening safes for 'a split' of the contents--Something that no actual
safe owner will say to me...

Also I have mixed feelings on the subject of selling thousands of $$$ worth of high security locks
when any criminal can simply toss a convenient rock through the back window and get in the house--
Can I truly and honestly say that I lost money for not selling a client something they do not need
when I think I am doing that client a favor? This is the reason why I have thousands invested in
ASSA and Medeco locks that I rarely try to sell, although it seemed like a good idea when I bought them, originally

When I worked in a shop and on the road, I would qualify the customers by asking what they were trying to accomplish. If someone wanted to hand out keys but worried about them being duped, Medeco or similar was a logical choice. Generally I would explain and offer options and let THEM choose, but would tell them if I thought something was extreme overkill. Worked out pretty well. Rich folks especially appreciated me not playing "soak the rich guy. "

[billdeserthills]

Jim

I must admit I find your story entertaining and satisfying.

As a card carrying member of the public at large, I can't recall ever seeing a an ad for a locksmith with the exception of Popalock. I would not call the guy who showed up a locksmith. I am bombarded by commercials for HVAC and plumbers. I can name several even though I have hired exactly one AC and two plumbers in thirty years. Surprising to me, I have done business with a locksmith seven times. ( Five vehicle related and two weird key copies.) The vehicle jobs introduced me to two scammers. The two physical shops were the ones who make me think "scrapyard needed" when I think locksmith.

The first cussed and kicked out the customer after me because he said he was here only because the big box store couldnt copy his key. (Exact thing I did but I didnt feel the need to comment.)

The second all but handcrafted a key from scratch for a tiny amount of money considering the time involved. He told me bumping was not a new thing. Introduced me to Medico which he said I didnt need because my locks were not the weak points of my house. He then reassured and scared me about a half dozen different ways in two minutes. My awareness of locks started there. I need to spend some money in his shop.

Billdeserthills

I once had a lucrative contract offered if I provided a vehicle. I've had offers for a split if I would throw merchandise into the dumpster. I've had offers if I would.... you get the idea... I once had a stripper offer "outside time" if I would pay part of her monthly rent.

I believe druggies, scammers, and thieves rub shoulders with everyone.

I remember one time I had a woman who was doing part-time cleanup work lock her keys into the clean up closet.
She asked if I could pick open the closet and take the cost out of her @ss--I had no idea what that meant, but her
friend was glad to explain it to me- She told me if I wasn't interested she knew another locksmith who would, so I let her call that guy

[Ralph_Goodman]

I remember one time I had a woman who was doing part-time cleanup work lock her keys into the clean up closet.
She asked if I could pick open the closet and take the cost out of her @ss--I had no idea what that meant, but her
friend was glad to explain it to me- She told me if I wasn't interested she knew another locksmith who would, so I let her call that guy

That seems... wow.

Did she get her closet open?

That is not meant as an innuendo. It is just that I can't imagine someone taking her up on that offer. Seems like an easy way to ruin your entire business.

[billdeserthills]

I remember one time I had a woman who was doing part-time cleanup work lock her keys into the clean up closet.
She asked if I could pick open the closet and take the cost out of her @ss--I had no idea what that meant, but her
friend was glad to explain it to me- She told me if I wasn't interested she knew another locksmith who would, so I let her call that guy

That seems... wow.

Did she get her closet open?

That is not meant as an innuendo. It is just that I can't imagine someone taking her up on that offer. Seems like an easy way to ruin your entire business.

She mentioned the name of the locksmith she said would take it out of her @ss & he is a competitor in my area
I believed her 100%, I just hadn't ever realized that was an option, let alone considered taking it as payment
I did accept a shotgun in trade for rekey & repair last month though, so perhaps next time that trade is presented
I'll give it more thought--About the closet I can't say, I did notice not soon after that it's door had been ripped
off and it lay open, still does. I do know the guy who called me out to meet the friendly girl was a biker, so
maybe one of his pals 'opened' it for her

[peterwn]

......
One reason for the proliferation of blanks is that some blanks fit into a hierarchy of key ways to prevent cross-keying in large masterkey projects. So even if two change keys were cut the same, they would only work on their own locks because they could only be inserted into their keyways, yet one masterkey could go into both locks. Corbin-Russwin, Best, Sargent, and Schlage (and others?) did a lot of that. So instead of one key blank there are a dozen or more instead.

Yale pioneered the multiplex keyway system in the mid 1890's (GA to GH profiles) and the first client was the Surety Building in New York. This has been referred to as the 'Surety system' after the building name, and the term was corrupted to 'security system' n some cases. The G profiles are older than the Yale '8' paracentric profile.