Bumping Medeco

[freakparade3]

If, indeed, Medeco cam locks can be bumped (and I really, really want to see how that works) then it's possible that the sidebar on a Schlage Primus could be bumped the same way (plus the upper pins bumping the usual way.) That's two tough locks down for the price of one .

Didn't Zeke already bump a Primus? I'm sure I read that somewhere, time to dig.

[questions]

bumping, looks like its another technique i need to practice than just picking.

[Afisch]

Ah i see, while writing the last question I was hoping i got the story right. I now remember how the pins on the medeco look its been a while since i looked at the breakdowns. Would it be alright for simply yes/no answers to the questions, mods? Cheers Eyes_only

[globallockytoo]

To answer Gordon's question without having the thread locked...would be difficult.

Suffice to say that Primus keys, supplied to a dealer, are all usually of the one side bar dealer code. Therefore...bumping is easy because the dealer code is known for all cylinders and conventional bumping applies.

In answer to Eyes_only, apparently the medeco locks worked on, were M3 (new) cylinders.

Am still waiting for the video to be uploaded.

LN21...to quench your appetite...PM me your details and I'll see what i have in stock to send you....(Bilock)

I'm happy to send product to various people to prove the Bilock lock is all that it claims to be. With the additinal testimonial to it's prowess...the future for Bilock cylinders in markets outside Australia is assured. Because LP101 has built a reputation as the goto site for lockpicking...internationally....discussion here can help to portray a positive image for a product of exceptional quality. Especially when it can be configured to work with almost any hardware line.

No, I'm not a rep for the dealer or manufacturer. Yes I'm a dealer in the product. I stand 100% behind the system, having worked with it for over 20 years.

I do not stand to earn money from Bilock sales unless ordered from my company. I just want to produce increased opportunities for a clearly superior pin tumbler mechanism that is competitively priced and aesthetically pleasing to the masses.

[globallockytoo]

To answer Gordon's question without having the thread locked...would be difficult.

Suffice to say that Primus keys, supplied to a dealer, are all usually of the one side bar dealer code. Therefore...bumping is easy because the dealer code is known for all cylinders and conventional bumping applies.

In answer to Eyes_only, apparently the medeco locks worked on, were M3 (new) cylinders.

Am still waiting for the video to be uploaded.

LN21...to quench your appetite...PM me your details and I'll see what i have in stock to send you....(Bilock)

I'm happy to send product to various people to prove the Bilock lock is all that it claims to be. With the additinal testimonial to it's prowess...the future for Bilock cylinders in markets outside Australia is assured. Because LP101 has built a reputation as the goto site for lockpicking...internationally....discussion here can help to portray a positive image for a product of exceptional quality. Especially when it can be configured to work with almost any hardware line.

No, I'm not a rep for the dealer or manufacturer. Yes I'm a dealer in the product. I stand 100% behind the system, having worked with it for over 20 years.

I do not stand to earn money from Bilock sales unless ordered from my company. I just want to produce increased opportunities for a clearly superior pin tumbler mechanism that is competitively priced and aesthetically pleasing to the masses.

[Gordon Airporte]

To answer Gordon's question without having the thread locked...would be difficult.

Suffice to say that Primus keys, supplied to a dealer, are all usually of the one side bar dealer code. Therefore...bumping is easy because the dealer code is known for all cylinders and conventional bumping applies.

Right, I meant bumping a Primus with an unknown sidebar code. The Primus sidebar mechanism is similar to Medeco cam locks (single pin, lift and rotate), so if the cam locks can be bumped, perhaps a universal bump key could be made for Primuses.

[globallockytoo]

To answer Gordon's question without having the thread locked...would be difficult.

Suffice to say that Primus keys, supplied to a dealer, are all usually of the one side bar dealer code. Therefore...bumping is easy because the dealer code is known for all cylinders and conventional bumping applies.

Right, I meant bumping a Primus with an unknown sidebar code. The Primus sidebar mechanism is similar to Medeco cam locks (single pin, lift and rotate), so if the cam locks can be bumped, perhaps a universal bump key could be made for Primuses.

Bumping a Primus without a known side bar code is not possible...because all primus keys are supplied to the dealer (from the manufacturer) with their side bar code already cut on each blank.

Look at a blank and you will never see an uncut side bar blank. They do not release them.

[LockNewbie21]

will do mate appreciate the offer.

I am actually quite confident the Bilocks are a real pain.

I only knocked the primus simple from the sidebar weekness.

As for picking, I belive primus (thus far in my collection) besides the assa is an incredibly difficult lock to pick.

I have been playing on an off with the lock and can seem to find a viable means of reading what I am doing.

[LockNewbie21]

will do mate appreciate the offer.

I am actually quite confident the Bilocks are a real pain.

I only knocked the primus simple from the sidebar weekness.

As for picking, I belive primus (thus far in my collection) besides the assa is an incredibly difficult lock to pick.

I have been playing on an off with the lock and can seem to find a viable means of reading what I am doing.

[zeke79]

Global is correct. You cannot bump a primus without a key with the properly coded sidebar.

I have an idea I want to try out dealing with primus but that is not for the open forums.

[Gordon Airporte]

Global is correct. You cannot bump a primus without a key with the properly coded sidebar.

I have an idea I want to try out dealing with primus but that is not for the open forums.

I stand corrected on the Medeco camlock...it does indeed have a side bar...but it can and is being bumped open...contrary to the doubting thomas' in here.

The Primus sidebar mechanism is similar to Medeco cam locks (single pin, lift and rotate), so if the cam locks can be bumped, perhaps a universal bump key could be made for Primuses.

Or are the mechanisms that dissimilar?

[globallockytoo]

the mechanisms are completely different. The primus uses a dedicated set of pins separate from the inline pins. The medeco uses one set of pins only.

[TOWCH]

The rotation situation of the primus sidebar pins does not lend itself to bumping as the available points of contact are off axis with the center of rotation. For all but one angle: the ramping would put a spin on the pin more than it would bounce it up. It's hard enough making a key that will align these sidebar pins. The person who is tasked with making a key that will do so while the key is being wacked with a hammer has my sympathy. Not that I imagine that method of raking would be very effective anyway.




This is a bit redundant and not addressed to anyone in particular, but here's my summary opinion of the lock if anyone cares:

Think of seperate locking systems that make up a given lock as exactly that. Divide and conquer.

The security of primus is in the sidebar. The high tolerance conventional pin tumbler aspect is nice and all, and good picking practice with the sidebar removed, but bumping considered, I don't really think it's worthy of much notice when evaluating Primus's security.

When I look at a primus, I see an interesting and frustrating micro-keyway finger pin sidebar lock with sloppy bitting control, with a relic slapped on to it to make keying systems easier to manage.

Anyone with a key to ANY lock with the same sidebar bitting essentially has the key to any other lock with the same sidebar bitting provided they are also in possession of the knowledge to bypass the toy.

The purpose Primus fills is reducing the pool of threats to prior in-house access of some sort, vs. a much bigger pool of potential threats with prior access unnecessary. Considering the # of confirmed reports of this lock being NDEed cold, I would say it does it's job fairly well

It's another lock on my list of locks that I can't think of anyway to defeat without mad skillz, a drill, a source of bitting information, or the overcomplicated usual suspects methods of decoding.

[TOWCH]

The rotation situation of the primus sidebar pins does not lend itself to bumping as the available points of contact are off axis with the center of rotation. For all but one angle: the ramping would put a spin on the pin more than it would bounce it up. It's hard enough making a key that will align these sidebar pins. The person who is tasked with making a key that will do so while the key is being wacked with a hammer has my sympathy. Not that I imagine that method of raking would be very effective anyway.




This is a bit redundant and not addressed to anyone in particular, but here's my summary opinion of the lock if anyone cares:

Think of seperate locking systems that make up a given lock as exactly that. Divide and conquer.

The security of primus is in the sidebar. The high tolerance conventional pin tumbler aspect is nice and all, and good picking practice with the sidebar removed, but bumping considered, I don't really think it's worthy of much notice when evaluating Primus's security.

When I look at a primus, I see an interesting and frustrating micro-keyway finger pin sidebar lock with sloppy bitting control, with a relic slapped on to it to make keying systems easier to manage.

Anyone with a key to ANY lock with the same sidebar bitting essentially has the key to any other lock with the same sidebar bitting provided they are also in possession of the knowledge to bypass the toy.

The purpose Primus fills is reducing the pool of threats to prior in-house access of some sort, vs. a much bigger pool of potential threats with prior access unnecessary. Considering the # of confirmed reports of this lock being NDEed cold, I would say it does it's job fairly well

It's another lock on my list of locks that I can't think of anyway to defeat without mad skillz, a drill, a source of bitting information, or the overcomplicated usual suspects methods of decoding.

[Gordon Airporte]

I agree with your assessment of the Primus, Towch. If the upper pin setup is anything like the Everest it's trivial to pick on its own.
Even without knowing the mystery of bumping unsplit pins you're right that the little feet on the sidebar pins being off center should cause a problem. I hadn't thought of that...
I'm still trying to figure out how the bumping thing might work, though - maybe once that's made clear there will be more to work with.