Something funny is going on..Medeco Know-it-alls please read

[bprzybyl]

Hello,
I got a 7/8" Medeco Cam Lock off eBay a few weeks ago. I bought it because a)It was like $10; b)It came with keys, as the 1-1/8 Mortise Cylinder I had just bought did not; c)I wanted a guaruanteed working lock. Once I got it, when turning the key I figured I could feel the sidebar disengaging. The key has 5 cuts in it, which are also angled, just as I figured. But I'll get to the odd part.

Last night, ~1:00AM Local, I decided to pick some locks before going to bed. I have still yet to beat my BEST 6-pin IC padlock, but tried again with the same result. I then played around with my other locks, finally deciding to just go to bed. But I decided I might as well try my Medeco lock (Cam, not mortise) and see just how bad it would make me feel. After some raking, then minimal single pin picking...

It opened.

You may not find that particularly odd. What if I told you I did it in around a minute? Am I just insanely lucky, or did I get scammed? I've said in my earlier paragraph everything I know about the lock. I can post pictures if people ask me to, and would be more than willing to take it apart. If anyone could help me with that, it would be greatly appreciated.

Any proof you guys want at this point (aside from a video), I'd be willing to give.

Thanks,
Brooks Przybylek

P.S. - I forgot to mention earlier, I've only been picking since a week before Christmas. That adds another reason why this is so wierd.

P.P.S - Used a half diamond (It's my lucky red one...I found it!)

[Chucklz]

You could open it I guess. Random events will occur. But if you can pick it regularly, then I would suggest your lock might lack a sidebar, have very strange pins that lack false notches etc.

[raimundo]

the cam lock is not the usual medeco set up. its more like a bi-lock with just one row of pins, there are no upper pins, just lowerpins with drilled holes in the pins to accept round fingers from the sidebar. So lets just listen to the guy tell us what works best in picking this thing. heavy or light pressure on the tension, rakeing or picking etc.

[TOWCH]

Bouncing heavy tension and ripping have always worked well for me up until I load up the 4th pin.

It has to have a sidebar, it wouldn't even need a key without it. The only way to make a medeco cam lock easier is to take out pins, or masterkey it.

Try to do it again and see if you can, if you can't, you just got lucky.

[bprzybyl]

Do it again?
And blow all the wind out of my sails?

I will sometime tonight. If someone could tell me how to rip this bad boy apart though, I could end the speculation as to if the pins have Holes/slots or not fake slots.

Technique? Rake & single pin. Raking I just somehow magically picked up. I had to replace my smaller half diamond (I only considered it smaller after making my newer one) with a new one. I tried raking my $2 Family dollar lock. I had never raked successfully before, but decided to try it. I have since raked (meaning successfully opening) 4 out of my 7 padlocks. The reason for 3 not opening? 1 is a warded lock (hence raking=useless), 1 is a lock with a troublesome keyway for raking, and the other is my 5-7 pin BEST padlock, which I have yet to open, and is simply the devil . I also raked a 6 pin BEST mortise cylinder in about 15 seconds. Raking is unbelievable when it works.

Crap, I was supposed to talk about technique. I rake them on the right side of the keyway, looking at the lock. Once I get bored with that, I then single pin pick. I applied moderate tension throughout, and then more at the end to rotate the plug.

If someone will tell me how to rip this thing apart, I will do it tonight. I hate homework. It's a momentary switch Cam lock. it has a little microswitch at the back which comes off with 2 screws.

[raimundo]

Its a long time since I've had one apart, but i believe that it can be done none destructively, look at the interior end of the plug for some kind of snap ring or other fastener that can be removed, this will alow the plug to be let out the exterior face of the lock. then you will find a metal cap on plug, (the sidebar will probably fall off as you pull the plug out and there may be some tiny springs associated with either end of the sidebar, so do this on a cloth to prevent the bounce and roll that will occur on any hard table top.) Also, use a black marker to mark the plug and sidebar so that when you put it back together it will be oriented in the way it was originally, medeco sidebars should always be marked like this, until you learn to interpret the subtle variations and how they affect the lock.
Try to remove the metal cap on the plug without warping it, this can be done I believe. under that will be springs, so work over the cloth, and you will find the pins, these have the chisel tips, and on the sides of the pins, you will find holes, some are shallow, (false holes,) and some are deep. your lock should only retract the sidebar when the fingers on the sidebar are in the deep holes, not in the shallow holes, observe the fingers on the sidebar to see if they have been filed down by someone who did not understand the lock. Use the black marker on the sidebar and plug before it emerges completly from the cylinder, so that you do not get the marks wrong.

[Chucklz]

Raking on the right side..... ahh. So you were applying some kind of rotational force to the pins. A quick thing woudl be to take a look at the key. Do you have a "hard" bitting? That is, extreme high/low configurations? And what rotations are your pins?

Even with HS stuff, you occasionally find an _individual_ lock that is a quick and easy pick. Just dont count on the same ease with different medeco locks and models.

[hzatorsk]

The Medeco cam locks do indeed rake easily. I can usually open them in about 15 seconds or so.

I'd be shocked if it took you longer than a few minutes.

hz

[bprzybyl]

Well, I tried again this morning around 5:15AM local. No luck whatsoever. This may prove the fact that a)dumb luck; or b)doing homework until 5 in the morning lowers your lockpicking ability. Hopefully it's the latter of the 2.

hzatorsk - You said the cam locks rake easy? Then why don't the other locks (as in any other medeco)? I haven't tried anything at all on my mortise cylinder, but what would be the difference? I figure both of them have the same mechanism inside, bar the fact that the cam lock has a microswitch on the back and the mortise has a cam on the back. The only other evident difference is the fact that the cam is a 5 pin, while the mortise is a 6. I dunno.

Regardless, I will keep everyone informed of any information. Also, I was trying to rip it (cam) apart, and could not get those washers out. If anyone has any tips, I'd be much Obliged.

Thanks,
Brooks Przybylek

[nezumi]

It has to have a sidebar, it wouldn't even need a key without it. The only way to make a medeco cam lock easier is to take out pins, or masterkey it.

I just got the same type of lock (going to fool with it over lunch). Why won't it work without the sidebar? I haven't taken the cylinder ALL the way apart, but it looks like the standard top pins will work fine.

What does it mean when it says the lock is biaxial? Does this just mean it has a side-bar? (This term doesn't appear in the dictionary/terminology post. Perhaps it should be added there as well?)

[nezumi]

I've gone ahead and dissected my Medeco. It sounds like the same model as the original poster (did you get it from keyrite? He seems like a good seller.) It's a six pin knob lock for Schlage knobs. The box says:

"OPC-FN-KY 20W0100 -05-G3". The front of the lock has 51S on it.

I went ahead and took it apart over the lunch table. It had 6 odd-shaped lower pins inside (I don't know the technical term for the slanty pins). Two mushroom shaped security upper pins. The remaining four upper pins are all of different heights. There is a sidebar. The front of the sidebar is denoted by a small hole you won't find on the back. The sidebar is spring loaded, but the springs were too weak to push it out any distance.

I removed the sidebar and turned the security pins upside down (presumably that'll make them easier, since they won't catch as intended. Even though the sidebar is removed, the lock performs normally with the exception that it catches when turned 90 degrees CW (the upper pins catch into the slot that the sidebar was in).

While taking this apart, I do not believe there are any concerns about where the upper pins should go - the different heights don't seem to have any bearing on whether the lock works or not. However, the lower pins not only have to be put in the right spot, but have to be facing the right direction. There is a slight groove on one side that lines up with the crossbar. Do be very cautious about getting the lower pins turned backwards or whatnot.

To make the lock easier, I would recommend as such:
1) Remove the sidebar
2) Turn the security pins upside down
3) Remove upper and lower pin pairs


I didn't spend much time actually trying to pick the lock, but so far I've had no luck raking or picking. You could just have an easy lock

(Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere. Having search through, I hadn't seen anything on it.)

[raimundo]

The medeco cam lock is not the same lock as the full size medeco locks, the full size locks can be seen to have room for top pins in the cylinder, outside the plug, If you look at the cam lock, it can be seen that the cylinder has no room for top pins. the cam lock depends on rotating pins in the plug and rasing them to the correct height to let the five fingers on the sidebar into the plug. the sidebar is the only part that obstructs the plug from turning in the cam lock, in the larger medecos, the top pins also obstruct the plug from turning. thus, the cam lock is a five pin sidebar only lock, while the full sized medecos have top pins and sidebar to prevent the plug turning,
Yes, the cam lock is less difficult to open, keep picking it, it will teach you some good feel.

[nezumi]

Boy, pictures help (Had to google search 'cam lock'). Thank you for explaining that. Yeah, I guess mine is a good deal more difficult than his, which would explain why I couldn't just rake it But I HAVE gotten it open with four pins and no sidebar (using picking).