I-C tool purchase - Looking for advise

[IC-Johnny]

Hi Everyone,

I would like to reach out to the group here for some advice. I am seriously considering purchasing a set of tools to do work on "BEST" type Interchangeable Cores. There sure is a great deal of information here on the site, and every day when I come home from work, I do a search to see if anything new has been posted on my field of interest.

I have a respectable collection of pad locks and door hardware that accepts the "BEST" type SFIC cores. I have made several versions of my own tension wrench (The "FINCH" style).

I have been working with these locks and cores, unguided and on my own for about 3 years. Like many, I have been sucessful with picking the cores within a minute or so. Not quite competition, but until a few weeks ago, I had no knowledge of this site, or the hobby.

I find that it's easy to pick the operating shear, but I am still challenged by the control shear.

When I eventually get the core out of a group of padlocks that I bought from Ebay, I would like to re-pin them and learn more about the master keying elements of this hobby.

OK not to rant on, and to make a long story even longer, I am looking for recommendations on two items. First I want to buy a servicing jig, for SFIC cores (forgive me if I am not using the correct terminology). Something like LAB's ANNEX, or the one made by A-1. Secondly,I would like to buy a "pack a punch" (again forgive the terminology). The hand-held device that makes keys from the codes. I know that they are not cheap, but I want to make sure I don't throw the money away, by buying something that I can't use.

Originally, my local locksmith looked at me like I just grew a third eye when I walked into his shop with these cores. He wants $50.00 US each, to re-pin them and I think he sends them away. He wants them for two weeks to work on them.

Since that original quote, I did find a supply house 55 miles away that will re-pin them for $10.00 US. I have enough of these between my home and my wife's business to make me want to buy the equipment, and do it myself. There is no price that I can pay for the knowledge and experience that I will gain by doing it myself. I enjoy this sort of thing. It's like therapy.

So, I'm open for suggestions. LAB's "ANNEX" tool looks impressive, but as far as I can see, it looks like the core has to go into the "jig" opposite of how they show it on their ad. From my experience, which is limited to removing the pins w/o a tool, I have found that the pins come out through the top of the core (where the caps are).

Let me know if I'm wrong before I go too far, and have pins all over the place!

Thanks again for this great web site!

[keysman]

SFIC can be lots of fun !
$50.00 @ hmmmmmmmm that seems a little high..


I have the lab annex.. nice piece of equipment.

There is a book on SFIC by Bill (?)Lynch that is very well written you can probably find on the national locksmith web site.

You would probably want to get in touch with Randy Main of Main's Lock Supply in Southern California.. he has lots of new and used equipment and would be able to advise you on what you need . he also sells used cores pinnned with a key for $5.00 each.

Do a web search for his web site and contact him by phone.. I don't think he is able to do e-mail.

[Octillion]

Hi IC-Johnny,

I actually live in Bethlehem (or my home is there at least, I'm currently in grad school, so I'm actually in CT most of the time). This summer I was looking for a store front locksmith around ABE to see if they could cap a few cores I had pinned up for picking practice. The only non-mobile locksmith I could find was A & B Lock & Safe, and they didn't deal with SFIC’s (was this the same place you went to?).

After looking around for a cheap capper, I ended up getting a Lab Annex off Ebay for around $120 NIB. The Annex works very well, it is certainly better than anything I require for hobby use, and it also decodes cores. I'm not sure what your requirements are, but if I didn't get the Annex, I was thinking of getting a lock service jig from MBA (http://www.mbausa.com/item.asp?num=MB13). It is fairly inexpensive (at least with respect to other cappers), and it seems useful for working with other locks. I just noticed now it says it's discontinued, but there may still be some in stock.

I do have the three SFIC Finch type torque tools from Peterson (http://peterson-international.com/i-CORE.htm), but I haven’t had much luck getting these to work. I might just need to play with them some more.

As for the “PAK-A-PUNCH,” I couldn’t say, but I’d be interested in seeing one. They are a bit pricey, I’m not sure I see the justification in buying one.

[keysman]

So, I'm open for suggestions. LAB's "ANNEX" tool looks impressive, but as far as I can see, it looks like the core has to go into the "jig" opposite of how they show it on their ad. From my experience, which is limited to removing the pins w/o a tool, I have found that the pins come out through the top of the core (where the caps are).

With the Annex... to empty the core you do turn the core "upside down".
All the contents drop into the 'book" in the order they came out of the lock. Pretty handy to decode or make a control key.

To load the pins , springs and caps you turn it " right side up"

[IC-Johnny]

Keysman,

Thanks for the tip on the book, and clearing that up about how the core goes into the ANNEX. It alll came together when "capping" was mentioned.

I think I'll definately order the LAB ANNEX and the book as well. It looks like the general concensis is in favor of the LAB ANNEX.

Octillion,

Thank you too. It sounds like you are pleased with yours.

Regarding A&B, No, it wasn't him. Actually I know him. I called him first. He told me straight out, that he dosen't work on them frequently.

I do some work locally here in my spare time, for a friend of mine that has a local private investigator and security firm. That firm deals with him, and I have used him for several other projects. I have always been happy with A&B's service. He's a good guy. I really don't want to bad mouth anyone. Heck, they're just trying to make a living. He's not the $50.00 per core guy.

I have interest in the IC cores, as a hobby. Maybe since there is no one in the Lehigh Valley that works on them, I might be able to become proficient enough with them to have these guys send me their IC work someday.

I really don't want to deal with retail customers, so I doubt that I will ever give up my career as a engineer in the RF communication field to become a locksmith. I do enjoy the work, but I already have as much retail contact as I want with my wife's retail pet shop business.

I just want to have the tools to do a good job. I guess I'll just get the stuff I need and carry on. Next I'll get the LAB IC pin kit. So far, I only work on my own locks.

I do have some opportunities with the private invesigation work though. That is strictly a professional business. I do some field investigation work. Primarily, electronic surveilance for small and medium sized businesses in the area. Most times they are checking into employee theft or corporate espionage.

Thanks much to the both of you for sharing your expertise!

[IC-Johnny]

Keysman,

I just spent a few minutes trying to find that book on the website of The National Locksmith. It looks like you have to be a member there to get to it. I checked the public section and did not find anything about SFIC's at all.

Thanks for the info though, I doubt if they would sell it to me anyway. Maybe I can get a copy of it from another source. Maybe it can be ordered through Amazon.com.

I'll run a few searches on this site to see if they turn up anything about an alternate source for it.

Thanks again!

[Octillion]

Regarding A&B, No, it wasn't him. Actually I know him. I called him first. He told me straight out, that he dosen't work on them frequently.

I do some work locally here in my spare time, for a friend of mine that has a local private investigator and security firm. That firm deals with him, and I have used him for several other projects. I have always been happy with A&B's service. He's a good guy. I really don't want to bad mouth anyone. Heck, they're just trying to make a living. He's not the $50.00 per core guy.

I hope it didn't sound like I was bad mouthing them, just that they don't do SFIC work. I'm not sure if any mobile locksmiths around here do any SFIC work, but I wasn't about to have a service call to cap two cores. However, many medium to large facilities have their own locksmiths, or maintenance that does all the lock work, so I'm not sure how often a locksmith would have to deal with them anyway.

I think if there is market for SFIC jobs around here, at least some of the locksmiths will have tools to do this already. FYI, for heavy volume work a capping press is often used, which caps each chamber at once, instead of individually capping the chambers like with the Annex which is more suitable for smaller jobs. Having to cap 100 or so cores on an Annex doesn't sound too fun.

[2octops]

I like SFIC and service a lot of them each week. They are very simple once you get the basics down. If you can add up to 23, you can key these up.

The Lab Annex is a nice tool if you need to decode a control key or a master, but it is not necessary if you only want to servce the cores. I normally just use a holder from A1 or Pro-Lock and they work just fine.

As far as punches go, if you can find one of the original orange punches from Best that was designed for A2 systems, you will have the best machine ever made for SFIC keys. Pro-Lock makes a blue punch also and usually runs around $800. Stay away from the hand help Pak-A-Punch for these keys. They require too much force to make deep cuts and are very difficult to use. A standard code machine can do these, but the machine will need to be in calibration or the keys will stick.

The guy that wrote the book (literally) is William Lynk. Actually he has writen several and has purchase info on his site http://home.earthlink.net/~icls/

A lot of locksmiths do not work on IC because they do not understand it. They have trouble with the math and do not see the point in investing in more equipment and pinning kits, just to have another keyway in stock. Some also think that they can not go head to head with Best and take their customers away.

In case you did not know, Best Security Systems is a major competitor to most locksmiths. They cater to the end use and bypass the locksmith. Best has their installers (or subs) install the locks. Best writes the master key system, cuts the keys and pins the cores up.

Best keys of yesteryear (keyways A-M I think) simply have had their patents expire and now anyone can make the keys. Now they have many new keyways that you can not get keys for to replace them.

Get Bill's books. He is an excellent teacher and writer. He is a certified instructor for ALOA and all he deals with is both LFIC and SFIC.