MACS for American locks?

by **Gordon Airporte** » 3 Jul 2007 20:00

I can't believe this isn't in the service manual (pdf from their site), but I can't find it. A search here didn't turn anything up either. Maybe there's no restriction?

by **rakemaster** » 3 Jul 2007 20:45

IIRC it's the same as for Master locks, which use the same
pins and spacing.

by **rakemaster** » 3 Jul 2007 20:50

Just checked: my hpc d&s guide says no macs for american padlock.

by **Eyes_Only** » 3 Jul 2007 20:59

oOOoooOo....now I have a good excuse to get myself a few American padlocks to mess with.

by **freakparade3** » 3 Jul 2007 22:23

Eyes_Only wrote:oOOoooOo....now I have a good excuse to get myself a few American padlocks to mess with.

Or a brinks shrouded. If I remember right it's an American keyway.

by **zeke79** » 3 Jul 2007 22:39

6 pin american on the AM3 keyway, MACS is 6. Now ya know ;-)

.

by **Eyes_Only** » 3 Jul 2007 23:13

My hopes and dreams are now shattered. :cry:

by **rakemaster** » 3 Jul 2007 23:20

zeke79 wrote:6 pin american on the AM3 keyway, MACS is 6. Now ya know ;-) .

But there are only 6 depths (according to the HPC D&S book), so
isn't that the same as no MACS?

by **copeman** » 4 Jul 2007 1:00

i believe so :lol:

by **keysman** » 4 Jul 2007 9:43

Defiantly 8 depths for the AM3.. according to Instacode + the Framon D&S book

I will look at the American Padlock Pin kit when I get to the shop.. but I seem to remember ZERO pin which would mean 9 separate depths..

Just a side note: The pin diameter is the same for the small Masters ( # 3, #5 ect), the pins are interchangeable if you change the cut # by 1. ( i.e. an American # 1 pin will replace a master #0 or maybe the other way around)

by **Raymond** » 4 Jul 2007 11:32

There are definitely 8 depths, from 1 to 8. The HPC maskerkey program states the MAC is 5. For smooth usage and wear you should't exceed that. Master brand pins do work well. If the American calls for depth 1, use Master depth 0.
This is a mystery I have never found an answer to. On a slightly different note, I recieved 18 American military padlocks several years ago that had completely different pin lengths. There were only about 6 or 7 depths as follows. (The seventh I would be extrapolating as none of the padlocks contained more than depths 1 - 6.) Depths:290, 266, 244, 219, 198, 180. The spacing was the same. These pins were not serrated and the upper pin was a long spool pin in each chamber. I tried contacting American for more info but never found anyone who would verify what was going on. This may have been a one time thing and I have never seen any of them again. Maybe they were counterfeits or a test run from a foreign country.

by **le.nutzman** » 4 Jul 2007 14:02

Something to add on this note, today i picked an American 5200, quite normal for me since that's really all i'm exposed to over here. Anyways, after I picked it, i did what I normally do, I disassembled it to look at what i was up against. This particular American 5200 had taller driver pins then what i'm used to seeing. And the difference was significant. The spool pin wasn't serrated at the top and bottom which is pretty standard to what i'm used to seeing in the locks. And height difference, the taller spool pin was significantly taller as well as just a bit fatter in the middle, but still maintained the spool. The springs were also different, shorter. All in all this was a much different version of the American 5200 that i'm used to seeing.

Something of interest, each 5200 is code stamped on one side of the face or other. Most of them have a 3 or 4 digit code usually starting with a letter. This particular lock code was oem3. I believe that there are two different versions of this particular lock, a consumer version and a government standard version. Generally the only ways to tell them apart are by the color of the body and the stamping code.

If anyone's looking for a good challenge, I still say pick up an American 5200 any day.

by **rakemaster** » 4 Jul 2007 18:51

I stand corrected. Odd that the HPC d&s book definitely says 6 depths and no macs. The depths i have listed are .210 (#1) to .135 (#6), in .015 increments. This is for the M3 blank.

by **Gordon Airporte** » 4 Jul 2007 20:21

Rakemaster - I should have specified that I'm talking about the keyway that takes AM1045 blanks, so you're probably right about the M3.
This service manual says "All American Lock keys use the same spacing and depth specifications..." and lists 8 root depths from .2840" to .1747" in .0156" increments. Center to center is .125" so that would be a pretty steep slope from #1 to #8 if there's no MACS.
5 sounds about right, thanks. I'm trying to rule out illegal readings from my decoder.

by **Raymond** » 5 Jul 2007 22:55

Mr. Nutzman, That 5200 you picked and described is the same as those I was referring to. On the original 5200's you can usually see the serrated pins through the keyway. They are considerably harder to pick. This different version is easier to pick.
Enjoy the laminated Masters as they have no security pins at all.

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