lock difficulty rating

[simon_G]

hey guys, just a thought, but i dont suppose any members who know there stuff would like to try asigning various locks a difficulty rating?

i would do it myself, but i dont know enough yet

i mean, maybe one point per pin, each security pin is worth 3 points, keyway ease of access out of ten, e.t.c.

my thought was this would really help people who dont know as much yet work out what they should be moving onto next...

i know this would be a huge job, but i think anyone who did it, either on there own or in a group would earn the gratitude or many people..

- Simon

[ObiWonShinobi]

Some people pick certain locks VERY quickly...
That other people just CANT seem to be able to at all.

The same people who have trouble with one, pick another
faster than the first person who could pick what they cant.

I think certain locks are better picked with different styles of picking.
Certain people are better at different styles.

---

Say, A brinks disk lock C70 is near impossible to rake.
A mountain security cheapo generic is EASY to rake.

Someone skilled at raking will open the mountain quickly.
Opening the mountain pip-by-pin takes a lot longer.

Someone skilled at the pin-by-pin method will open a C70 fast
(once the6y learn to deal with spool pins that is)

--

also... besides method... the picks involved work diferently
in different locks.

one person picks pin-by-pin with a hooked lifter very well,
but the lock opens faster with a half-diamond.(smaller keyway?)
Some people dont like a half-diamond because they cant feel well.

sometimes people use a half diamond faster because its straighter,
and their mind can picture it/feel it with more understanding.
and sometimes the front pins are longer and NEED a bit of a hook
to be able to reach over/under without setting the front pins.

Some people prefer to rake with a sawtooth rake. some an S.
Some scrub or scrape with a half diamond.

--------------

Lock A has a difficulty rating of 4 out of 10 for pin-by-pin with a long hook.
but only a 2 out of 10 difficulty with a double hooked W rake.
and has 7 out of 10 rating with a short hook. (all pin-by-pin)

in rapid raking, has a 4 of 10 diff with a bagota rake.
but only a 3 of 10 with shallow depth sawtooth rake.

Jiggling with a wide M rake drops the difficulty down to 1.5 of 10
but take a minute or two longer than other methods.

------

It's possible.... but rating EACH lock for each persons picking style/ability
with each type of pick.... is an extensive task.

[ObiWonShinobi]

By the way, as long as this request has been here, im suprised NO ONE
has even attempted to answer before now.....

It took me a LONG time to master the Brinks R70.
It was my FIRST lock with spools.
I should have got another one but had no idea which was EASIER.
But now Ive got it down to under 25 seconds 85% of the time.
And SOMETIMES I get it in under 5.
(every once in a while I still get stuck thouh..... 3-4 minutes)

Moving to the Chateau model next, basicly the same lock,
but has a tighter keyway and pins are partialy covered.
Should be fun.

Master #1 and #3 are easy pin-by-pin with a small hook or half diamond.
also easy to scrape/scrub with a half diamond.

[cottonmouth]

The rating would be really difficult as actual pinning and binding order have a rather big influence.
I own a cheap Buffo lock with five pins. It has no special pins, a wide keyway and generous tolerances. The only catch is that the 5th pin is really short and the 4th pin is pretty long. One side binds from back to front. This side is a piece of cake (usually less than 5s). In the other side the 4th pin binds first the 5th pin is last. The 4th pin cannot be set with a long hook. The fifth pin requires the long hook. I never opened this side in less than 4 minutes. Maneuvering the long hook in often overlifts the 4th pin which requires starting over again.
From most criteria this lock would yield a really low rating. However the binding order and pinning may really spoil a beginners day.

[Gordon Airporte]

One approach, which avoids the trouble of quantifying the effect of different security measures like spools and sidebars, is to look at the results from a lock picking competition. You can use whatever method seems best to rank a lock's difficulty by the amount of time is took for the various contestants to open it. Just totaling everyone's time for a lock might work, or maybe using the mean or median times.
Toool has a bunch of their contest records on their site.

[hli]

maybe im just stupid but i cant find it on their site (english) could you link it?

[CVScam]

I used to think about rating the difficulty of locks but then I picked up 4 deadbolts from a company that upgraded their locks. They are all real kw1 kwicksets with the same easy key bitting. Every one of those locks has a different feel to it. The one from the front interior door is the easiest and the deadbolt that was expossed to the weather on the back door is almost 2 times harder to pick.

[Gordon Airporte]

maybe im just stupid but i cant find it on their site (english) could you link it?

Yeah, I had to look around a bit too - here ya go:
http://www.toool.nl/competitie/

As you might expect most of the locks are more common in Europe. The US wing of Toool (www.toool.us) doesn't have any competition results that I can find, but they would cover the American locks.