Ace II Nightmare

[dougfarre]

So a buddy of mighn gives me a call, tells me he gets a brand new conveyer belt style Coke Machine. I mean, this machine is awesome, latest technology type stuff. Big panes of glass so you can see right into the machine to see your selection.

He calls me, tells me that he needs me to come pick a 7 pin tubular lock. Im like HA, no big deal, I pick 7 pin tubulars for breakfast. 7 pin tubulars? Yea thats right. I can can pick my way out of a swimming pool of 7 pin tubes, and when I am done, Ill lock them all back up just like I was never there.

So i get there, and I notice its an Ace II. No big deal though, I have my Deluxe Ace Pick http://www.lockpickshop.com/PKA2.html so this lock doesnt have a chance. I don't care that it has variable spring tension, or what other type of lame security measures this lock tries to implement....

Well it turns out I couldnt pick it. I tried for 2 hours. I even called JackNco in the UK for his advice. He told me to try the playing card trick.. No dice. I even tried the pen trick. After a while I started drinking some beers in despair, and my buddy decided to try and stick some stamples inside the lock to try to clean out the area around the pins.

What he discovered was the the pins were actually able to move! Like a pin was about to pivot to the point were it could touch another pin! I cant take a picture, becuase i already drilled the lock open. But imagine taking a staple and moving one of the pins so that it pivoted to the point were it was touching the pin next to it, then it would just stay there. Im pretty sure it was still in its pin chamber, it was just moving like crazy. Then i discovered all the pins did this. Is this normal? I will try and draw some pictures in paint.

[ilmr]

Don't pick locks that you don't own and are in use!!!
Sounds interesting tho'.

[dougfarre]

Don't pick locks that you don't own and are in use!!!
Sounds interesting tho'.

Do i really have to defend myself on this one ilmr? Anyways your right, I didn't end up picking. I ended up drilling it anyways.

[freakparade3]

You can damage those locks Doug, we all know you are a rookie. Seriously, I am very curious to see the pictures. By the way, santa never made it to my house.

[mitch.capper]

come back to irc doug, we miss you! hahaha.

The floating pins sounds very odd, i can't imagine how this would be able to actually work, maybe it was just broken?

[ilmr]

Don't pick locks that you don't own and are in use!!!
Sounds interesting tho'.

Do i really have to defend myself on this one ilmr? Anyways your right, I didn't end up picking. I ended up drilling it anyways.

J/K. Will you do an autopsy w/ pics aka did you end up replacing the lock?

[Beyond]

Funny you should say that because I was playing with an Ace II today at work and noticed something similar. Although I couldn't pivot a pin right next to a pin, only a little bit.

[poor paperclip picker]

I was researching these a bit and this is what I found on them:

http://www.crypto.com/papers/notes/picking/ says
"(e.g. the Ace-II lock and the tubular models of American-brand padlocks) are made to very tight tolerances and use mushroom, spool, and serrated security pins."

I cant take a picture, becuase i already drilled the lock open.

http://www.everettsafeandlock.com/chicagofiles/acellcam.pdf
says
"Center plug contains anti-drill pin for added security."

[dougfarre]

Anti drill security my tooth. I mean, I only broke 3 drill bits
But, I was using wood bits, It wasn't until I got some proper metal bits that I was able to drill through all the bits that I had broken off inside the lock!

[dougfarre]

Alright, here are some examples of how the pins were behaving. It was making picking very hard..

[mh]

A strange mushroom key pin could do that... But it would also not work properly with the proper key...?
Has someone tried to force the lock? And why was there a problem with the lock in the first place if the coke machine was brand new?

Were you really using *wood* drill bits, the type that centers itself in the wood with a little tip in the middle?

[globallockytoo]

Did you try to lube it before attempting picking?
Often lubing with Tri-Flow will aid the picking process.
I picked a 7 pin ACE II the other day on a gun safe....wouldnt budge dry....but after lubing with Tri-Flow....it picked surprisingly quickly.

[dougfarre]

A strange mushroom key pin could do that... But it would also not work properly with the proper key...?
Has someone tried to force the lock? And why was there a problem with the lock in the first place if the coke machine was brand new?

Were you really using *wood* drill bits, the type that centers itself in the wood with a little tip in the middle?

They weren't wood bits in particular. They were multipurpose. and they were not the type of wood boring bits your talking about. They were just some regular black and decker bits. I bought some bits that cost about 15 dollars each that were made out of cobalt to finish the job. They worked really well. I wont ever drill a lock again without them!

Also, I didn't really try and lube the lock, although my buddy mentioned that we should try it. We didn't have the proper lube. I was just so flustered because i had never had so much trouble with a tubular lock before

[niksoft]

Always wanted to play with some circular locks, but don't have the tools nor the locks to play with (looking to get a side pinned yale lock, i picked squelch's and it was fun , and i'm also working on designing a mul-t-lock pick (wanna make my own))

You can damage those locks Doug, we all know you are a rookie.

Yeah you noob..... (kidding doug, i got lots of respect for ya, you and ray are my locksport idols)

By the way, santa never made it to my house.

That's because he wasn't able to make it past my Santa air defense system, i mean we had a power outage in the neighborhood so he may have only limped away this year (laser didn't fire to blind him), but his sleigh never made it to your house for sure... good thing i had a battery back up for the surface to air missile targeting system. Maybe next year; anyone up for some venison burgers next Christmas?

Hope you enjoy the humor

[raimundo]

lube used in conjunction with a tubular pick can quickly make the pick sliders become too loose to work and will require the tool be taken apart and wiped of lube, so if you have to lube such a lock think about it and do it very carefully, try to absorb the lube from areas where the tool could become lubed, the tool works on friction, lube will not help it.