Weiser crap?

[Romstar]

Just a bit to pick up on my previous statements concerning the shoddy quality of Weiser, Kwikset and similar low cost locksets.

I just tore apart a lockset that was given to me. There are no markings on the lockset, but it is an entry lock. It appears to be a Weiser Huntingon key in knob entry set.

After careful examination I discovered that when normally in use, both spring tabs holding the inner and outer knobs in place are exposed. Even when installed.

Using this spring tab, I removed the outer keyed knob, and had the lock cylinder fall into my hands. This is where it gets interesting. Since I always knew Weisers were a bit dodgy. Since I don't use them often, I had not seen this part until now.

The lock cylinder is made of plastic. Really cheap, flimsy plastic. The plug is brass of course, and Weiser is still continuing it's practice of tapering the driver pins and attaching the springs directly to the pins.
The spring retainer clip slides along two grooves in the cylinder body, and fits so loosely that I would expect it to pop off with very little pressure.

The latching mechanism is the expected cheap stamped Weiser parts. Nothing new there.

Basically, I reitterate my stance that most Weiser locks in use today in apartment buildings, and other locations are most likely to succumb to relatively minor force attacks. In addition, I would have to say that picking one of these is different because of the plastic cylinder. It creates a situation where a screwdriver might likely create enough turning force to open the lock.

I was shocked that Weiser quality seems to have gone down, not up. If you know anyone, including yourself with one of these locks on your home, apartment, business or anywhere replace it immediately. If you can't replace, augment the lock.

[CaptHook]

The lock itself will usually not be the first thing attacked, or the first to fail. I cannot for the life of me understand why so many builders and homeowners install doorknobs and locks, using a 1x6 piece of trim as the strikes sole support.
Chuck

[Romstar]

The lock itself will usually not be the first thing attacked, or the first to fail. I cannot for the life of me understand why so many builders and homeowners install doorknobs and locks, using a 1x6 piece of trim as the strikes sole support.
Chuck

Heh

You noticed this did you?
I don't know how many aspiring locksmiths that I've met who all of a sudden become carpenters of one sort or another.
Then there are the other group who won't go near it. Just give the poor homeowner the news that they need a carpenter to come in, remove the door and replace the frame.

Of course we have a thrid group. The group that won't fix it, won't tell the home owner it needs to be fixed, and they simply install the lock.
Now that is a false sense of security.

Romstar

[Varjeal]

Hate is a strong word, so Ill use. it. I HATE Weiser locks. Everything about ALL their products is horrible. Years ago (at least 5 or six, probably more) the head hocho's at Weiser came up with the brilliant plan of being "cost effective" and moved their assembly to Mexico from the U.S.

Now, before someone starts calling me racist, let me explain something to you.

When the assembly plant was in the U.S. Weiser was obligated to pay vaguely moderate wages to employees to work in their factory, and those employees had to be trained and re-trained and qualified to do the work that was necessary.

HOWEVER, after the move to Mexico, the ever cost-effective management of Weiser knew several things.

1. They could get Mexican people to work long hard days for almost nothing.

2. Training wasn't nearly as expensive since they could hire 1 Mexican to do one specific job, therefore, they could hire a dozen Mexican people to do the work of 50 Americans at the same price, and the Mexican people didn't have unions, or coffee breaks (other than siesta) and wouldn't complain about working conditions (since probably ANY job was better than starving.)

3. Quality didn't really matter, because they could make more profit on selling parts and replacements (After all, it's not good business sense to make a product that lasts a long time. *extreme sarcasm* )

4. They could take advantage of Mexican people, and who would complain? And to whom?

Romstar mentions a lot of valid points about Weiser locks, and I'll add a few of my own.

1. Plastic cylinder (oooohhh that's drill resistant or wrench resistant, huh?)
2. Poorly attached pin chamber covers. (How easy is it to bend plastic over a thin brass plate, really?)
3. Loose construction, including sloppy chamber tolerances, and shaking handles.
4. Poor quality return springs.
5. Poorly applied finishes (especially on their "brilliant" series)
6. Plastic latches.

Regarding door jambs, I like to (when possible) offer frame reinforcement plates, and I ALWAYS install the longest screws possible through the frame. (especially on deadbolts) and I always point out to the customer the inherent weakness in frames. I usually get met with the "oh well, it's only to keep the honest people out, right?" comment, but at least I feel better letting them know. Whether they choose to do something about it or not is quite honestly, not my problem.

[PickPick]

You crazy Gringos never cease to amaze me
In Germany pretty much the worst thing you'll encounter is an Abus C83 and while I think they're crap at least they have 4 spool pins, a 'paracentric' keyway and are all brass.
Now for the US, I was amazed when I heard for the first time that whole apartmet blocks are fitted with Kwikset. But I thought it couldn't get worse...
And a year or so ago an acquaintance of mine was in the States at a locksmith convention, cause he sells and manufactures opening tools. Among other things he sells a tool called the Zieh-Fix, which is a pretty good core puller, or you can use it to snap the cylinder in half sometimes. Well the lockies at the convention told him they wouldn't need such a tool as they could pick every cylinder they ran across. This surprised him somewhat, so he handed them a Nova cylinder (economy brand from Abus, no spools and fancy stuff, you just mustn't up the tension) and none of the super pickers could open it.

My point is that before I heard of the quality of some locks fitted over there, I never thought that under normal circumstances the lock could be the weakest link

[zeke79]

I have found that just about anything you can pick up at your local wal-mart or equivilent store is junk. Weiser is just plain bad, even new the hardware doesn't function well at all.

[Romstar]

Hey PickPick,

Now you understand why I'm a little upset.

Yale and Ilco are about the most basic thing I use, even then, sometimes I'm not convinced of the security because of the door frame.

About the only reason I have any kwikset and Weiser locks around is so I can practice on the things, and maybe have something the aspiring lock picker can succeed on.
Weiser and Kwikset pick a bit differently from higher quality locks. Mostly due to their poor construction and materials. I am sure you will agree that a plastic cylinder isn't going to give normal tactile feedback.

At any rate, I found your friend's story very humerous. I have met this attitude previously, and I think it's pretty crappy. A Nova for heavens sake, that must have made some of those guys a little upset.

Anyway, thanks for your input. I got a great chuckle.

Romstar

[mcm757207]

I don't really care about my own lock. A theif is just going to smash a window or bust the door down

[PhreakPhy]

I don't really care about my own lock. A theif is just going to smash a window or bust the door down

ya, what he said.

[mcm757207]

One of the locksmiths at the job I work at has a really good theory:
"If you lock your door your either slowing him down or sending him to your neighbor"

[maldotcom2]

ok...um i was changing the pind in my door lock practise lock and got all the springs in and the pins down with the follower and i went to insert the plug but it didnt have the key in it, so the top pins sprung into the wrong plug holes and the plug would not go any further in to the housing (im not sure but i think it was whitehat that had done this as well)

so anyway i put my pick in there and freed it. then i inserted the key and tried again, but something stuffed up and now one of the springs has a single coil broken off it.
is this going to stop the key working?

thanks

[Mad Mick]

A single coil missing from the spring is not going to stop the lock from working. But, if the end of the spring is left jagged (from shearing done by the plug/cylinder), it is likely to score the drilling for the top pin and possibly bind up that pin. You should really replace the spring, although since it's a practice lock, you can probably trim the spring and you are not likely to feel much of a difference when picking.

I'd replace the spring anyway.

[HeadHunterCEO]

weiser is crap

kwikset are alright

ultramax even better still

schlage is better

I have broken all and gained entry with just my vice grips clamped on the knob or just forward the rosetta on all brands.