F-B and Masterkeying

[Guitar_J]

F-B gives 4 rules about setting up a masterkey system... I... Feel that their rules are a bit off... but maybe I'm wrong... here is a summary of the rules

1) No cut on a change key should be the same height as a cut, in the same position on the master key... ex... Changekey has xxx5x masterkey is xxx5x they say it's a no no...

2)for change keys, there should always be a minimum for 2 depths between each cut... ex.. Bad change key x23xx good change key x24xx

3) on the other end.. there should never be more than 4 depths between cuts...

4) there should be no locks with all the same cuts ex... 44444


I guess my big issue is with rule 3... Wouldn't MACS determine this? or is it different for masterkeying?

Also.. isn't the master key supposed to have atleast one cut that is higher than a cut on any change key to prevent the possibilty of somone filing a key down? (I dunno how they'd know how far down to file... I read this one somewhere)

Anyone have any more rules that should be obeyed when setting up masterkey systems???

I dunno.. I'm feeling a bit in the dark... perhaps I'll have to read over the chapter again... although I do understand the idea of setting up a masterkey system... not too complicated on a small scale.. but I could see it becoming a real beast on a large system with Grandmaster keys and beyond... Yeach!!!

[Chucklz]

For their course, follow their rules of course. Then get a book about masterkeying. I've seen professionally done MK systems that violate rules 1-3.

[Absinthe]

Foley gives you some rules for one particular method of masterkeying. There are several, including some that would seem to break those rules completely, but that is because they are following a different set of rules. The masterkeying that they explain in the main course, is merely so that you have a "working knowledge" of the concept of masterkeying. I would not accept a large masterkeying project with only that knowledge. I will be looking at their (Masterkeying) course shortly, but you may want to look into some other books and course ware on masterkeying. I believe
the accepted Bible of master keying is :

Master Keying By The Numbers, Billy B. Edwards CML

At least once source is below but you can find it other places.

http://www.aloa.org/store/merchant.mv?S ... y_Code=BEM

[randmguy]

Another good resource is HPC's How to Create a MasterKey System CD. Very good instruction... it talks about the 3 most common method for master keying and some of the reasons for the rules. Another good source of info is The National Locksmith and the Locksmith Ledger...At $46 a year for a subscription it is a great place to look for ideas. I'd also recommend the back issues on CD for any locksmithing student... full of great stuff for beginners.

As for the rules you're learning from F-B they sound very like the first set of instructions I got on setting up A2 systems. I think it was called the odd/even method. I believe it is taught mainly because it is a fairly easy to understand method and who wants to start with something like the Rotating constant system?

[Varjeal]

"Fundamentals of Master Keying" by Jerome V. Andrews, CML is also an excellent book. It discusses several different methods of masterkeying.

As Absinthe and Chucklz have stated, there are different methods, and different sets of rules for each. The system used is really dependent on a few factors:

1. The size of the system.
2. Room necessary for expansion
3. MACS for the keyway used.
4. The client's needs.

The answer to your question about MACS is a resounding yes. MACS will determine the extreme of depths between cuts.

The rules stated in your course are good guidelines to go with in beginning to understand how masterkeying works. The "rule" that you mentioned additionally is also a good one to go by.

Knowing the "rules" allows you (in certain situations) to break them without doing extensive damage.

For basic systems, the rules mentioned in your course will keep you from forming bad habits and will allow you to retain as much security as you possibly can (which is basically thrown out the window once you start masterkeying.)

[HeadHunterCEO]

just get some decent master keying software

life is too short andtime too valuable to be inking up master sys

[plot]

Think of them as "Guidelines"... just make sure the master key always has cuts higher than any key underneath it.

if you had one key with cuts higher then the master, then yea, it would be hard to know what to file and how far down, etc... but if you have two or three different keys to two or three different locks in a masterkey system, then it wouldn't be to difficult to figure out what to do. the more keys you have, the easier it'd be.