SAGER Locks?

[vrocco]

Anyone know anything about Sager locks? I have a friend who just bought a house and the key is a 1047M. According to an Ilco keyblank reference I found, the key is for a Sager lock. I don't think the company is still around.

Anyone know anything about blanks, D&S, MACS, pinning, etc?

Any help would be appreciated.

[5thcorps]

curious myself

[Squelchtone]

Anyone know anything about Sager locks? I have a friend who just bought a house and the key is a 1047M. According to an Ilco keyblank reference I found, the key is for a Sager lock. I don't think the company is still around.

Anyone know anything about blanks, D&S, MACS, pinning, etc?

Any help would be appreciated.

Hey vrocco,

I have a theory. Sager Lock Works of Chicago IL. and Barrows Lock Works, were divisions Of The Yale & Towne Manufacturing Company. In which case they probably shared lock design and keyways. Check out Yale pinning and MACS standards. (btw: Sager Lock Works was around in the 1930's.)

Look at Yale blank Y202 and C999, the profile is dead on, perhaps the bitting specs also match common Yale specs. Here's the ILCO Catalog I used to compare the keyways:

http://www.kaba-ilco.com/key_systems/key_download.aspx?File=key_blank_directory_catalog_60_2004_cylinder_k_to_z.pdf&Attachment=True

Yale:
TFC .206
BCC .164
MACS 5


good luck,
Squelchtone

[straightpick]

Sager had the 1084 and 1804-1/4.

Sager 1804 Keyblank Ilco 1047

Shoulder to first cut is .210 Cut to cut is .156

Spaces are 210 - 366 - 522 - 678 - 834


Sager 1804-1/4 Keyblank is Ilco 1047A

Shoulder to first cut is .220 Cut to cut is .200

Spaces are 220 - 420 - 620 - 820 - 1.020


Depths are the same for both .015 increment 0 is deepest cut

0 = .200 1 = .335 2 = .320 3 = .305 4 = .290 5 = .275

6 = .260 7 = .245 8 = .230 9 = .215

MACS for Sager 1804 is 7. Would GUESS the MACS would be 10 for the 1804-1/4 due to the .200 spacing

[Squelchtone]

Sager had the 1084 and 1804-1/4.

Sager 1804 Keyblank Ilco 1047

Shoulder to first cut is .210 Cut to cut is .156

Spaces are 210 - 366 - 522 - 678 - 834


Sager 1804-1/4 Keyblank is Ilco 1047A

Shoulder to first cut is .220 Cut to cut is .200

Spaces are 220 - 420 - 620 - 820 - 1.020

Nice info straightpick, but you did notice that he said the key says 1047M right? If you look in the ILCO catalog, the key profiles are totally different from 1047, 1047A to the 1047M. I wonder if the cut specs are the same across the 1047 line or if they are like the Yale keys I listed. Interesting stuff.

thanks for the numbers,
Squelchtone

[vrocco]

Good info squelchtone and straightpick.....I am gonna play with it a bit and I'll let you know what I find.

[vrocco]

squelch...after looking at that catalog again (that was the same one I found), C999 looks very similar. The Y202 seems to have the same profile, but comes to a point at the tip like the 1047CR. I dunno if this would matter in the lock. HL Flake stocks the 1047CR, but not 1047M. I am gonna check if they stock either of these 2 blanks.

Thanks again.

[Squelchtone]

I think I heard this advice given before when searching for a difficult to find blank. Find the oldest grimiest looking hole in the wall locksmith shop in town, walk in and hope they have a huge wall of blanks from the last 50 years. Maybe they have a real Sager blank just waiting for you.

good luck
Squelchtone

[straightpick]

Nice info straightpick, but you did notice that he said the key says 1047M right? If you look in the ILCO catalog, the key profiles are totally different from 1047, 1047A to the 1047M. I wonder if the cut specs are the same across the 1047 line or if they are like the Yale keys I listed. Interesting stuff.

Yeah, I did see that they were different profiles. Sager blanks were labeled 1804, 1804-1/4, 1804-1/2 and 1804-3/4, corresponding to Ilco 1047, 1047A, 1047CR and 1047CR. Oddly, the Ilco blank 1047M has no Sager equivalent. The profile is the same as the 1047CR but thinner. The Sager 1804 used HPC card X20 and the 1804-1/4 used card X21. It appears that these locks were different in that the 6 pin locks used a different spacing than the 5 pin ones. I would cut the key using the 1804 specs.