plug won't turn

[jamesphilhulk2]

hi,

i have a brand new squire high security padlock, i picked it, turned the plug too far and now it won't rotate, i've pushed all the driver pins back into the cylinder while applying tension but still no luck. also one thing which i thought was quite strange/never seen before is that the plug was already at an angle before i picked it.

one more thing while the lock is picked the shackle won't budge.

this is the lock:

https://www.screwfix.com/prods/69918/Se ... ia-Shackle

i could post some pictures if it would help

[shatter]

i could post some pictures if it would help

It would...

[Engineer]

Some pictures would help, especially of the core. Can you get some light into the keyway as well if that is possible please?

I'm sorry, I don't have one of these handy, but it does sound like the core turned too far and the pins have now fallen into the bottom of the core?

[jamesphilhulk2]

i shall post some pics of it tomorrow morning, i dont think any pins have fallen into the core to be honest i've given it a good shake to see if thats the case but i dont hear no rattle

[ToolyMcgee]

The plug shouldn't be able to rotate to far, as instead of a half or quarter cam, this lock uses a slot cam(?) that doesn't allow for extra rotation in either direction when engaged with the slot in the plug. Also, there are no holes in the bottom of the cylinder sleeve for pins to get stuck inside.

I recieved one today slightly used, and am having the same type of problem. It could be that since the lock is key retaining, the partially opened stuck shackle keeps the plug from turning. Whatever the cause the goal is to get the shackle open. Then either take the lock apart to fix it, or relock it and the plug should return to it's locked position. I've gotten it open by grabbing the shackle and shaking, and the occasional taps with a small mallet, but never by trying to pull it open through direct force. So, my only advise is, Commence da jigglin'

I'm tearing it all the way down right now to find the source of the sticking, and try to fix it. It appears to be nothing more than if you max out the rotation of the plug, the cam reengages the ball bearing on the other side and pushes them into the shackle enough to make it stick. So, try turning the plug slightly in the unlock direction, if you can turn it at all, and then tapping the shackle loose. If you get yours open, could you tell me if it has a shackle spring? Mine does not seem to have either spring tension on the plug, or a shackle spring.

-Tooly

[ToolyMcgee]

So...


Hopefully this helps give you an idea of what's jamming. It's a really plain design that is pretty neat. I still don't know if it is supposed to have a spring loaded shackle, but I put a spring in anyway. It has made the problem I was experiencing almost disappear. Now when it sticks, slight pressure on the top of the shackle and the spring shoots it out. Probably because the cuts in the shackle aren't perfectly in line, or one is bigger than the other, etc.... Whatever the reason, I'm going to cut the bottom twist or two off the spring and see if I can't lower the friction it creates between the shackle and bearing to a sweet spot where it unlocks freely like it should. Wish me luck 'eh.

Sorry for the double post, but I seriously thought it would take longer to break down and reassemble. Good luck man.

-Tooly

[Engineer]

That's great Tooly! Some locks have holes in the cylinder that can cause the symptoms you describe, but Tooly can confirm these don't have holes, so we can rule that out and look for another cause.

Thanks Tooly!

[jamesphilhulk2]

this is the lock:



at normal position the plug should be about 180 degrees the opposite direction.

unfortunately i couldn't get picture of the inside of the lock

[Dak]

this happened to an american padlock of mine. Push it under the nearest metal flap. you will get back to the right spot

[ToolyMcgee]

That's a squire, but it's not the one you linked. I can't tell exactly which one from the picture. I have searched and found that squire uses cylinders w/holes in the bottom on some of their locks. It looks like you found one of those locks. You need to try and drop the pins back into the plug, then lift the drivers out of the bottom of the keyway. I would hold the lock with the keyway perfectly vertical and tap it a little. You know, try to line up the holes in the cylinder sleeve with the holes in the plug and gravity should drop the keypins back into the plug with some gentle tapping. When you think they are all back in the plug, then lift the driver pins out of the bottom of the keyway with the backside of your hook. Hold them up, say a short prayer, and try to spin it back. Do the keypins with the lock in hand so you can get a vertical keyway, then when you think you have them all in the plug put it in the vice so you don't have to grow an extra pair of hands to hold the drivers up and give it a spin.

Don't turn the plug beyond it's keys range, or snap a lock closed with no wrench in it to limit the plugs rotation, until you know this can't happen with the lock. I learned it the hard way myself a couple times. This has always been how I was able to fix it. Hope you have good luck with it too.

-Tooly

[jamesphilhulk2]

also when i first got it, it had grease on the key, so its likely grease is holding the key pins in aswell. if think if i cant fix then i'll just have a refund lol

[Engineer]

Those two side "bumps" infront of the keyway are to stop the key turning too far. It does look like the cylinder has holes underneath the plug though and that the pins have gone into them.

Tooly has done an excelent job of describing how to try and get them back.

Good luck with the lock!