Need Some Assistance Friends

[5thcorps]

I am going to be updating the mortise locks here at the Chrysler-Jeep dealership I work at with new sets all the way around and updated cylinders. Below are photos of an example. How do I remove these inside door knobs? I pressed in the indentation and pulled at the same time but nothing. Do these require a special spanner wrench or something? They are 26 year old Armco mortises (I don't think they are in business anymore) but possibly made by another company maybe Dorma. Please Help I'd certainly appreciate it. My apologies for the large pictures. Just thought a better view for you all would help.
5thcorps

[lunchb0x]

Whats in the hole in the knob? maybe a grub screw holding the knob on to the spindle, or maybe the retainer is siezed and needs a bigger push, sometimes I would have to use a small flat blade screwdriver and tap it with something like a hammer or pliers to depress the retainer.

[Engineer]

When I come across something like this, what I do is to look on the opposite side of the mini hole for a corresponding hole. If there is, it is probably simply a roll pin that just pushes out.

If there isn't then there is a chance it is a small grub screw. I normally try first with a slotted screwdriver, slowly twisting it to see if I can get it to "fall" into a slot (yes, a bit like picking a lock, it's all done by feel). If not, then I move to a cross-hard screwdriverand try that to see if it will fit into the head of a concealed screw.

If not, I do wonder if it is a hex head screw, or whether the original head has been filled in with something either through use, or vandalism. I will try a thin wire (often a jeweller's screwdriver actually) and see if I can loosen anything clogging up the head.

If all that fails, then I start looking on the internet for the company name and "homepage". If that fails, then I go to Google's patent search and look for the company name there. This is getting a bit last-ditch by then, as I don't seem to have much luck with finding company names on patents. Perhaps I'm just unlucky!

If that fails, then I know I'm probably not going to be able to finish the job that day, which I dislike doing for something I cannot figure out, but it does happen sometimes!

Sorry, I'm not familar with that brand of lock, and so can only give general guidelines of what I do for things like that.

Please note that if it was only a hole for rain drainage, or an oiling point, then a small jeweller's screwdriver, or thin wire inserted into the hole, will be able to be "wiggled" around inside. If it is the method of detaching the knob, then almost certainly it will be a drilled shaft, rarther than just a hole through the outer casing. Ther is just the smallest chance that it will be a drilled shaft used for oiling, but highly unlikely as due to capiliary action, they can suck the oil away from the joint as well as they transfer it there. Oil holes like that are also prone to clogging, so you would be very unlucky to come across one.

Good luck and I hope someone has worked on them and can tell you exactly, rarther than my rules of thumb!

[straightpick]

See that hole in the knob? You need a piece of stiff music wire, small enough pin punch, finishing nail, etc. The retainer is through that hole. You may have to slide the sleeve up some to access the hole, if it is covering it.

[Engineer]

Looking again at the pictures, the indentation in the sleeve concerns me - Is it in all the other sleeves as well and in the same position?

I am wondering if it uses a crescent wrench to stop the sleeve rotating, while you punch the pin out of the hole in the knob?

Thank goodness you did post big pictures. I've looked at them and cannot see any scratches where they might have been removed and betrayed the use of a special wrench on them.

I can't see anything down the hole in the knob either sadly, but the indentation in the sleeve does look to have a small brass rivet at the bottom of it? If so, I don't think it would give proper purchase for a special crescent wrench after all.

It's certainly an odd one, even searching the internet isn't helping as there are so many comanies called "Armco" (the same one?) Some even produce lock fitting equiment, so it just might be worth contacting them if all else fails as it might have been one of their previous products?

[raimundo]

didn't notice a keyhole in the knob, if its there, you may have to turn the plug, Thats common in outside knobs with keyholes. the tailpiece blocks pushing in the snapset until its turned. Perhaps you need to turn the outside knob to move some kind of tail going up in there.

[5thcorps]

Special thanks to engineer, lunchb0x, & straightpick. The hole in the knob was the access point for the spring loaded retainer holding the knob on. Had to have a co-worker come and look as I am blind in the right eye and couldn't get my head to the right angle to see in there. Tried an inspection mirror but it wouldn't reflect enough light in it. Just had to move the sleeve in to see the retainer then pop! If there were a special thanks honor roll you 3 would be nominated, but the best I can do right now is reward you all this way:

Thanks again all!!!!!!
5thcorps

[Engineer]

You're more than welcome. You make some great posts and it's good to be able to help in return for all you do.