Schlage help please

[tehfrr]

Ok, so I read digital_blue's Beginner's Lockpicking Exercise thread and picked up a Schlage. I went with this because it was suggested this may be better than a Kwikset. They cost more money than the Kwikset as well. So I bought a doorknob and peeled the cylinder out, and it was not at all what I was expecting. I figured it would have the metal housing completely surrounding the springs like in most of the pictures I see. Not so much. This looks very cheap, you all are telling me the Kwikset is even worse? Yikes.

I have seen the nicer looking Schlage cylinders though in pictures. Can someone suggest a specific Schlage lock to pick up because apparently I picked up junk.





Also, when I was trying to take it apart, I was having trouble removing the black ring (lower picture). Any advice? I tried to push it off using a screwdriver but it would just spin, and its very difficult to push it off on both sides at the same time without a vice.

[freakparade3]

If you want one like you see in the pictures everywhere buy a deadbolt. The cylinders are different than knob locks.

[tehfrr]

Copy that, thanks. In general are doorknob cylinders inferior to deadbolt cylinders? Or did I just happen to pick a bad one?

[freakparade3]

Copy that, thanks. In general are doorknob cylinders inferior to deadbolt cylinders? Or did I just happen to pick a bad one?

I would not call them inferior. They are designed differently because they serve different purposes. For the practice of lockpicking where repinning often comes into play a deadbolt cylinder will hold up better.

[ToolyMcgee]

Ahh yes, the old levitating bible plate. It's a pretty difficult beginner pick with the mushroom type of pins inside. Just don't be suprised if a heavy hand explodes the whole thing inside the knob, because it's held together by wishful thinking...

You did have the unfortunate luck to pick up probably the most overly engineered and fragile lock with a Schlage name on it I still think it's a really neat pick. I wouldn't be suprised to hear it kept you out for a few hours, or a couple days until you get a feel for it. No good for repeat dissassembly though.

Try searching for a Restore or other second hand home improvement shop. It can be a great place to find real commercial grade Schlage locks, and the residential grade stuff for nickels too. Pretty much any deadbolt you buy off the shelf should be more solidly put together than this cylinder.

-Tooly

[jpb06080]

Schlage's compressible cylinders are actually in my opinion an improvement upon their previous design, although not in terms of security. There is a semi-destructive bypass for these cylinders which was not present in its predecessor. The nice thing is that the knob is one piece, instead of two like it used to be. Once you depress the retainer, you simply need to compress the cylinder to pop it in or out.

Older style schlage knobs tend to wear out in such a way so that the collar that sits against the back of the knob wears down, making reassembly a real hassle at times.

I find picking schlages to be somewhat difficult, but bumping them to be a breeze. Alot of the newer deadbolts come standard with spooled drivers. Compressible cylinders require a specific driver which is much smaller. This is somewhat irritating, because you need to buy drivers specifically for these cylinders, as lab pins will not work for top pins.

[datagram]

Could someone explain what the point of the floating chamber cap is? I have a few locks like this and I never quite understood the point.

Thanks,
dg

[tehfrr]

Ok, I went back over to the hardware store and bought the cheapest Schlage deadbolt I could find. Since my picks wont arrive for a few more days, I figured it would be useful to lean how to repin the cylinder, and then practice it. I was not expecting what I got this time, but for different reasons. I took the thing apart, but getting it back together was a bit more tricky.

I went to the local locksmith to see if he had a follower, or something I could use as one. I was kind of him expecting him to be all like GTFO based on what I was interested in. Actually though, when he found out what I was interested in he was super helpful, and even made me a brass follower. Sweet!

Anyways, heres what I found, and now I have a couple more questions.

What are the shallow cut holes for on this cylinder (the ones below the holes the pins go in)? My first guess is that they were some sort of method to trap pins, however the pins do not seem to fit in them.


Second, I picked up this Schlage to practice on as a newbie - doing the one pin at a time method digital_blue suggested. I was not however expecting spool pins - 4 of them even! So would starting with spool pins right from the start be a bad idea? Would you suggest perhaps going over to the locksmith and requesting a cylinder with no security pins, or just play with the Schlage?

[awol70]

I would keep the one with spool drivers,take the regular drivers from your other schlage, swap and add the spools one at a time,till you master them...
you have all you need to become proficient in picking security pins.
good luck,and
happy pickin'

[lunchb0x]

What are the shallow cut holes for on this cylinder

This is for construction keying, so say when a house is being built the the that the builders would be simmilar to that of the owners key except a couple of the cuts would be a cut deeper, in the lock would be around 3 ball bearings the the chambers being used for construction keying, when the owner uses their key the ball bearings are lifted above the shear line and when the key is turned they will fall into the small holes in the barrel so if the builders tryed to come back their key would no longer work in the lock.

I think someone has posted some pictures of this up here before.

[tehfrr]

Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate all your help.

Anyways, I pulled apart the cylinder from the doorknob to get some regular drivers to replace the spools with. I found these posted below. Half spools?? Ive done a pretty good amount of reading and searching before I started posting, and I have not seen these yet. It seems like they will almost certainly fall into the smaller holes when I try to pick it. Ah well, back to the store for something cheaper perhaps.

[tehfrr]

hrm, I suspect I had the drivers laid out backwards, they all just flew out when I pulled it apart, so they make a little more sense now. Still, not very useful for what I need!

[awol70]

well that was unexpected! =/
never in a million years would i have guessed that was the type of driver you would find in there..
they almost look like one half of split pins..
these look like they would cause an unrecoverable false,forcing reset.
just walk in to your local locksmith,and buy 6 drivers...(usually 10-20 cents each..)
now you have two types of security pin to master =) bonus!
you could also mix them,for a third challenge.
(on a side note i have successfully used short keypins,pointy side up, as drivers in a pinch)

[awol70]

upon second look is see the tops of the pins sit inside the spring...

[lunchb0x]

Yep thats right, so the springs go around the top pin, not having the smaller diameter part of the top pin facing down, what could make there be play in the lock and the barrel could move around a little bit.