Bump/pick proofing, and thinking outside the box

[Solomon]

Something just popped into my head... I was thinking about lock bumping, and companies have been trying to come up with ways to combat it for a good while now. This option isn't the cheapest, mind you, but if bumping has you paranoid then it's definately a good one. I'd favour this over anti-bump solution you spray into the lock... how does that work, anyway? Does anyone know how effective it really is? Either way, prevention is better than cure.

So, onto my idea. I have a Yale nightlatch (this thing) on my front door. They're very common in the UK; for those of you who are unfamiliar with them, you insert the key and turn 45 degrees to open the latch, then push the door open while the key is still turned. There is a spring mechanism which means you have to physically hold the key in place to open the door - if you leave go of it, the latch closes again. No big deal, right? Wrong! I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. These can be picked and bumped like any other lock, of course, but what happens if there are 2 of them? You can't hold the first lock at 45 degrees while bumping/picking the second. Just a random thought I had, and it's developed into a serious consideration. There are a number of factors I've thought about and the pros definately outweigh the cons.

Obviously, you could make something to hold the first lock in the open position while working on the second. That's not overly difficult, but the idea of this setup is to deter the average bump key burglar from having a crack at your front door. A guy walking around with bump keys and looking at potential targets isn't gonna be prepared for this. If he does have the right kit, his efforts will at least be slowed down and heighten the chances of getting caught. Should be an ample deterrent, or at least redirect him to the back door, which he won't be able to get through. You're not gonna have the same setup on that door, but all you need is a bolt latch to cut his efforts short. If he gets the lock open, he's not gonna be able to actually open the door anyway. So, he'll move along.

I doubt their use is as widespread as the media makes it out to be, but I came up with that little solution anyway. Why not, eh? The only real problem I see with it is that you'd need to insert 2 keys and turn them at the same time to open your door... and that might get tedious after a while. Especially if you've had a few drinks.

Any ideas to make this kind of setup less awkward for the homeowner?

[datagram]

That's not overly difficult, but the idea of this setup is to deter the average bump key burglar from having a crack at your front door.

But the thing is, these people don't really exist. If you want to deter bump keys while enhancing security in other ways, you might as well just buy a nice high-security lock mechanism, such as Abloy, Bilock, EVVA, Fichet, Mul-T-Lock, ASSA, etc. Even stuff like Medeco, which is technically bumpable, is still perfectly fine for everyday use.

dg

[SnowyBoy]

I think a better idea would be to have a lock with two keys/mchanisms built in to one somehow which both turn the opposite way to decode the lock.

Just another of my hair brained ideas xD

Oh yeah, another thing, I don't get this whole notion of making pin tumblers bump proof..... IMO it is pointless, there are plenty of bump proof and pick proof locks on the market, Abloy And EVVA to name but two.

[sfi72]

I think a better idea would be to have a lock with two keys/mchanisms built in to one somehow which both turn the opposite way to decode the lock.

Just another of my hair brained ideas xD

Oh yeah, another thing, I don't get this whole notion of making pin tumblers bump proof..... IMO it is pointless, there are plenty of bump proof and pick proof locks on the market, Abloy And EVVA to name but two.

Not all EVVA locks are bump proof, the DPS and their standard pin tumbler locks are very much bump-able.

[n2oah]

the DPS and their standard pin tumbler locks are very much bump-able.

Not completely true. The new DPS locks have sidebars.

[SnowyBoy]

I think a better idea would be to have a lock with two keys/mchanisms built in to one somehow which both turn the opposite way to decode the lock.

Just another of my hair brained ideas xD

Oh yeah, another thing, I don't get this whole notion of making pin tumblers bump proof..... IMO it is pointless, there are plenty of bump proof and pick proof locks on the market, Abloy And EVVA to name but two.

Not all EVVA locks are bump proof, the DPS and their standard pin tumbler locks are very much bump-able.

When i mentioned EVVA i was refering more towards the 3KS and MCS.

[mhole]

Your system could be bypassed in a few seconds by holding the first latch back with a piece of flexible plastic which bumping the second.

If you want to be bump proof, fit a good quality 5-lever deadlock. They *can* be picked, but no burglar is going to make the speculative investment of time and over £300 in cash to acquire the tools and skills required.

Remember, your door doesn't have to be invulnerable, it just has to be more difficult than next door.

[mhole]

Oh, and whilst I'm on the subject - get that nightlatch upgraded. It is the single, cheapest, nastiest, least secure lock on the market. It can be opened in seconds by anyone with access to freely available locksmiths bypass tools, and the only time it'll ever be vaguely secure is when the snib drops and it deadlocks you outside.

[n2oah]

If you want to be bump proof, fit a good quality 5-lever deadlock. They *can* be picked, but no burglar is going to make the speculative investment of time and over £300 in cash to acquire the tools and skills required.

Very good idea, especially here in the States where lever locks on residences are extremely uncommon.

[Raymond]

The original question reminded me of a contest at a university, maybe MIT, where they tried to come up with brilliant designs to lock the dorm room doors and the contest was to open them.

One design consisted of installing about ten deadbolts. Some of the latches were installed upside down. The point was that some of the deadbolts were left unlocked and some were locked. Just by feel you could not tell which was which. If you picked a lock and turned the plug you could not know if you were unlocking the lock or locking it. Of course, all ten had to be 'unlocked' to open the door.

They solved the problem by using a magnet to detect the saw resistant steel core of the bolt in the jam.

[n2oah]

They solved the problem by using a magnet to detect the saw resistant steel core of the bolt in the jam.

Why not just use a shim to feel the bolt?

[digitalme]

They solved the problem by using a magnet to detect the saw resistant steel core of the bolt in the jam.

Why not just use a shim to feel the bolt?

Presumably the entire gap between the door and the frame was shielded so that wasn't possible.

[Solomon]

Oh, and whilst I'm on the subject - get that nightlatch upgraded. It is the single, cheapest, nastiest, least secure lock on the market. It can be opened in seconds by anyone with access to freely available locksmiths bypass tools, and the only time it'll ever be vaguely secure is when the snib drops and it deadlocks you outside.

Haha, I admit it's not a very good lock... never really thought about getting it changed though. It's not insanely easy to pick; it does take a good idea of what you're doing to open... I doubt wiggling a rake around and hoping for the best would work (mind you I've never tried that before).

Then again, you don't even need to pick the lock! I remember getting locked out a few years ago and was able to use a loop of clothes line (cos it's grippy) to open the door by swinging it over the latch through the letterbox... wasn't particularly easy, but it worked like a charm. Ah, memories... that got me thinking, when you refer to bypass tools, do you mean picks or something like that? If there isn't a tool on the market for doing that, we should definately have one.

[globallockytoo]

That's not overly difficult, but the idea of this setup is to deter the average bump key burglar from having a crack at your front door.

But the thing is, these people don't really exist. If you want to deter bump keys while enhancing security in other ways, you might as well just buy a nice high-security lock mechanism, such as Abloy, Bilock, EVVA, Fichet, Mul-T-Lock, ASSA, etc. Even stuff like Medeco, which is technically bumpable, is still perfectly fine for everyday use.

dg

The only two proven bump proof products on the market (apart from lever locks) are Bilock and Abloy.

[Solomon]

The only two proven bump proof products on the market (apart from lever locks) are Bilock and Abloy.

According to TOOOL, there are many lock manufacturers which make bump-proof cylinders. Certain models made by GEGE, Anker, Kaba, M&C, Ikon, Medeco, and EVVA for example. Just repeating what I heard.