FEDERAL SUPER with magnet Break-down

[FrenchKey]

Hi all,

Here are some pictures of an interesting lock I own. It's made by FEDERAL, it has a magnet in the key and is a pin-in-pin Lock.
It was quite difficult to dismantle, especialy because I wanted to not file the key (I have only one), but I wanted to keep the order of the driver pins of the lock, but with some ingenuity, it was made possible and now, I will never file any key for taking a lock apart ! (and it is a european cylinder, so no rear-shim possible).


Lets start with the pics

Here is the lock itself :



And now, the inside :


You can notice the little ball on the right. It has no use but keeping the plug at position you can withdraw the key easily (when you use the key, it feels like when you have a sidebar in the lock, you feel like a "click" when you are at the position you can withdraw the key). No need to wonder for picking. (it could probably annoy a flip-it tool)

And now, the functioning of the magnet :
with no key :


with the proper key (or any magnet at the right place, actually) :


I've been told that the place of the magnet can change from one cylinder to another, but you can find the place very easily, because there is no pin at that place .

Another interesting thing with this lock is that there are 4 pin stacks, while there are 5 locations on the key. It feels more secure, probably...

Hope you enjoyed the pics and explanations

FrenchKey

[raimundo]

Thanks for the interesting post. I had never even heard of this lock company.

Did you pick it open?

obviously you developed a technique for taking the lock apart that you are not ready to share, but thanks for the photos and explainations.

[lunchb0x]

Thanks for sharing.

We had federal padlocks at my old job but they where only simple pin tumbler locks, nothing fancy and not even hard to pick open, maybe with your key you can get a 5 pin lock which would explain the 5 cuts on the key.

[FrenchKey]

Thanks for sharing.

We had federal padlocks at my old job but they where only simple pin tumbler locks, nothing fancy and not even hard to pick open, maybe with your key you can get a 5 pin lock which would explain the 5 cuts on the key.

I don't know if it's from the same Brand FEDERAL, but I think.
Concerning the 5 cuts, I thought the same, but I don't believe that cylinder come from a master-keyd system (But I will ask the friend that gave me the lock)

Thanks for the interesting post. I had never even heard of this lock company.

Did you pick it open?

obviously you developed a technique for taking the lock apart that you are not ready to share, but thanks for the photos and explainations.

The taking-apart technique is not perfect at the moment, and I don't want that sharing it make your lock destroyed, but when it will be good enough, I will share

Did you pick it open?

Actually, I didn't try before you asked because I never tried to pick any pin-in-pin lock, but your question made me wonder if I would be able to and... I have been :


I made a tensioner for it, but above all, I had to modify a dimple feeler for pushing inner pins without disturbing outer pins.
The most annoying thing was the magnet, that was very sticky with the feelers !!!
(here could be a real life situation where platic picks could be very useful )

Because of the pin-in-pin configuration, there is a particular mean to pick I've found, but it may be quite "advanced" stuff for sharing there (but if no moderator or admin tell me so in 24 hours, I will share in public).

Thanks for the challenge

[mitch.capper]

awesome breakdown and a cool lock thanks for sharing.

[n2oah]

The most annoying thing was the magnet, that was very sticky with the feelers !!!
(here could be a real life situation where platic picks could be very useful )

Very interesting lock, thank you for sharing it with us. I would recommend using a nonferrous metal over plastic, since most plastics are going to break or shatter when there is a force applied.

[awol70]

great post.
i have a federal super padlock,with no core.
even w/o the core,it weighs in like a brick..
i hope to find a core like yours for my padlock..
any suggestions ?

[FrenchKey]

I asked my friend and it seems to be NOT from the brand FEDERAL ; it is the name given by FTH (French Brand) to that series of High Security lock.
So you will probably not find any such lock for your TRUE Federal padlock.
Concerning the useless bitting, I saw pictures of others keys and locks, and it's the same, kind security thru obscurity...

Concerning the nonferrous picks, maybe duralumin ones. I will try to find such metal to make some picks.

[SnowyBoy]

How come you can't rear shim this? looks possible looking at it in this picture.

[FrenchKey]

It would have been possible if it were not be a European cylinder (like that http://www.quincaillerie-aixoise.fr/ima ... 688___.jpg ), or if I'd cut it in half.

[SnowyBoy]

It would have been possible if it were not be a European cylinder (like that http://www.quincaillerie-aixoise.fr/ima ... 688___.jpg ), or if I'd cut it in half.

Ah right, you meant a double euro.

On a sidenote, I'm looking for a Vachette dimple euro. French eBay has some and they go very expensive

[FrenchKey]

lol, Actually, what you might call a euro cylinder is called a "half-cylinder" in here,
here is the misunderstanding. (but actually a "half-cylinder" cannot be rear-shimed too in my opinion)

For the Vachette V6, I'm looking for one too, but if I find ones at a good price, I'll PM you.

[tballard]

The most annoying thing was the magnet, that was very sticky with the feelers !!!

You might want to try some different stainless steels. Many of them have very weak magnetic conductance compared to normal high-carbon steel. (And it's a lot less exotic that making a titanium pick or something...)

Thanks for this breakdown, it's a really interesting lock!

[michaelspaz]

Why would anyone make a key with a magnet on it?!? This just seems like a great way to erase a key chain pen drive or even a credit card if you keep your wallet with your keys

[adrenalynn]

erase a key chain pen drive

Flash memory is designed to withstand substantial exposure to cosmic radiation bombardment... Have you ever tried to erase a pen-drive with a magnet? [giggle] The flash memory in CF and subsequently in pen drives was designed for the space program.

They laugh at a degaussing coil. I've put a 12lb N58 on one without any data corruption. Somehow I doubt that tiny little magnet is going to have any effect on it.