Folger Adams Mogul

[rrkss]

I was looking at a breakdown of the Foger Adams Maxi Mogul lock and noticed that the key pins have ball bearings under them. Is this to reduce wear and tear from excessive key use like in a prison situation or is it more to reduce comb pick type attacks or is it something else?

[FarmerFreak]

I'm pretty sure it is to make it so the keys go in and out of the lock easier. They couldn't be used to prevent or resist a comb style attack. It should make it easier since there is now another sheer point in the pins at the exact depth the whole way across. But I doubt it is succeptable to a comb attack,....I haven't tried it though.

Have you picked it yet? The one my co-worker has was very difficult to pick. But that could be because I didn't make myself a larger hook pick special for that lock.

[rrkss]

Did not think of the second shear line created by the bearings. Nice call. Don't own that lock but want to obtain one. Since I don't work for the Dept. of Corrections, it might be tougher but I'm gonna give it a shot. To me it just looks like a standard pin tumbler lock that is just bigger and has spool pins plus ball bearings. Probably harder to pick because our tools are very small but maybe a long hook will work.

[acv]

I think Corbin-Russwin (or maybe Sargent?) used to do that in institutional locks to reduce wear. In that case it did create multiple shear line.

Possibly Folger Adams does this because they use steel pins and that might cause excessive wear on (non-steel) keys?

[fjardeson]

According to the Bible (LSS), the ball bearings are to reduce wear on the key. Detention locks get used a LOT (think 50+ operations at least in a day, the humble front door lock on your pad get turned 5 or 6 max a day). It can make picking harder but the drivers are balanced in those locks, so you can't push the pin up enough to make a shear line between the bearing and the pin.

I've been looking for a MOGUL cylinder my self, they are quite hard to find. I'm trying to find a prison that is being updated to electronic command (new prisons are pretty much all electronic / pneumatic) and contact the contractor

[Squelchtone]

I've been looking for a MOGUL cylinder my self, they are quite hard to find.

no they're not

http://highsecurityconsulting.com/Proje ... 4-pack.jpg


all your Adams are belong to me.

Squelchtone

Revised img to link

[unlisted]

all your Adams are belong to me.

Squelchtone

Ghey

[Dak]

aren't maxi moguls like $300 a pop?

[acv]

I didn't realize they were so big (thanks for putting the medeco cylinder there squelchtone). The size has the added benefit of making the ball bearing proportionately smaller and thus making sure those pins are balanced and extra shear lines avoided is easier. I'm ready to bet the depth steps are longer too.

[straightpick]

Corbin-Russwin also had the ball bearings in the pin chambers. While they seem to be there to make key insertion easier, that's not the purpose for them. They are to prevent impressioning a key. The ball bearings will roll and not mark the key with marks for impressioning.

[FrenchKey]

a French lock (named Supersureté), a kinf of wafer lock with 3 rows, considered as a 'high security lock', has ball like that and can be impressioned. Even better thanks to the ball

But maybe it's different for Corbin-Russwin. Is it effectively preventing impressioning ?

[Squelchtone]

Corbin-Russwin also had the ball bearings in the pin chambers. While they seem to be there to make key insertion easier, that's not the purpose for them. They are to prevent impressioning a key. The ball bearings will roll and not mark the key with marks for impressioning.

I think the insertion of the key being easier is always based on balanced pin stacks, not on ball bearings. The locksmith who services our entire campus and who is slowly replacing all of our Corbin Russwin institutional locks (which have the bearings) with the Medeco system we have, told me that the bearings are there to slow down the wear on the key pins because the locks are expected to be in place for many years and are used daily by janitors, teachers, IT guys, administrators, security guards. I do have to comment on a post above and say that the ball bearings couldnt in most cases be used to create additional shear lines, the key pins are simply too long and it would be difficult to lift the stack that high as to make the shearline be between the key pin and the bearing.

As for stopping impressioning, I don't know, maybe they do, but I'm not so sure that was their original purpose and design.

Squelchtone

[straightpick]

I was always under the "impression" that the balls were to make impressioning difficult. I checked with a Corbin-Russwin service manual and the purpose of the balls is to prevent wear on the pins. I stand corrected!

[magician59]

You will still find some of the C/R cylinders in the field with ball bearings in them. The practice of loading all the pin chambers with bearings was halted, when it was discovered that all it took to pick them was to insert a straight blade inside the plug and raise the pin stacks to the height just so that the bearings remained in the plug. This gave rise to the invention of the first comb picks.

[Squelchtone]

I've been looking for a MOGUL cylinder my self, they are quite hard to find.

Tuesday night (tonight) after 8pm (EST), I will be selling a Folger Adam Mogul cylinder (sorry, no key)

You all know where to search for it. It will be available Buy It Now.

Squelchtone