Deadbolt vs. Mortise/High Security Cylinder

[pingable]

For a residential entrance door application, is a high security deadbolt more *secure* than a mortise with a high security cylinder ?

I'm looking at a baldwin Mortise entrance door set and am planning to put a ~high~ security cylinder in it as well.

[CaptHook]

The cylinder installed will only increase your security from locksmiths and thieves who will attempt to pick/bump the lock. Your best option is a steel door installed to a SOLID wall frame. From there, the lock choice is up to you. I would make sure any deadbolt/rim cylinder have spin rings to help avoid wrenching. If you have a wooden door, I would take the frame out of the opening in the wall, and beef up the door frame/wall frame installation. Again, the locks are up to you, but in a residential application, a lot of money can be wasted on high security locks that you will never need. Thats not how burglars get into your house.
Chuck

[globallockytoo]

The cylinder installed will only increase your security from locksmiths and thieves who will attempt to pick/bump the lock. Your best option is a steel door installed to a SOLID wall frame. From there, the lock choice is up to you. I would make sure any deadbolt/rim cylinder have spin rings to help avoid wrenching. If you have a wooden door, I would take the frame out of the opening in the wall, and beef up the door frame/wall frame installation. Again, the locks are up to you, but in a residential application, a lot of money can be wasted on high security locks that you will never need. Thats not how burglars get into your house.
Chuck

I quite agree Chuck. I believe that too much stock is put in by people thinking that installing a high security deadbolt will be the answer to their prayers.

In 95% of applications, the jamb or door frame is made from 1" square pine. Often that frame is not suitably attached to the stud behind it.

Installing steel frames is the best option, in my opinion but if there are wooden frames already installed, sometimes installing a product like the Strikemaster II will sufficiently reinforce the frame to prevent kick-in attacks.

Whereas Baldwin products are indeed of reasonable quality and the product is guaranteed for life, they still suffer from the same problems as other medium security products. Being that they use SC1 pin tumblers, they are able to be bumped or picked easily.

I have installed Bilock cylinders for customers who own Baldwin products, because they are worried about picking/bumping and unauthorised key duplication. That pacifies their wandering minds, but I always recommend that they strengthen the door jambs, to prevent kick-ins.

For the paltry cost of a Strikemaster II, it makes sense to rely on it for the security it provides.

[darklighterz7611]

Lets be honest if someone wants to get in your house they will, especially if they do it for a living (thief). The only thing you can do is slow down the speed at which it can be achieved. Thereby making it more risky. So yes follow the good advice posted above but please dont forget that you have windows etc.

Security comes in layers not in sections

Your probably better installing cctv or a good alarm system.

[globallockytoo]

Lets be honest if someone wants to get in your house they will, especially if they do it for a living (thief). The only thing you can do is slow down the speed at which it can be achieved. Thereby making it more risky. So yes follow the good advice posted above but please dont forget that you have windows etc.

Security comes in layers not in sections

Your probably better installing cctv or a good alarm system.

CCTV and alarm systems are NOT physical protection devices, nor can they be.

They cannot protect you, only inform you. That is what they are designed to do.

If someone wants in, they'll find a way in. But good locks and jamb strengtheners will slow then down enough to make them go somewhere else.

Please explain how an alarm system can protect you or prevent a break in?
They can alert someone, yes. But that's all.

If you want to stop your window breaking, look for polycarbonate glazing. It can be purchased in 1/16" and will toughen glass to the point of preventing breakage or shatter effect.

[ElAbogado]

Lets be honest if someone wants to get in your house they will, especially if they do it for a living (thief). The only thing you can do is slow down the speed at which it can be achieved. Thereby making it more risky. So yes follow the good advice posted above but please dont forget that you have windows etc.

Security comes in layers not in sections

Your probably better installing cctv or a good alarm system.

CCTV and alarm systems are NOT physical protection devices, nor can they be.

They cannot protect you, only inform you. That is what they are designed to do.

If someone wants in, they'll find a way in. But good locks and jamb strengtheners will slow then down enough to make them go somewhere else.

Please explain how an alarm system can protect you or prevent a break in?
They can alert someone, yes. But that's all.

If you want to stop your window breaking, look for polycarbonate glazing. It can be purchased in 1/16" and will toughen glass to the point of preventing breakage or shatter effect.

I think good physical security, coupled with a loud alarm system is the best bet. I also have video on my home that I can monitor over the internet from anywhere in the world, but that is for my own peace of mind and not for a deterrent factor.

Alarms are a psychological deterrent, not many thugs hang around when the siren is whaling.

El Abogado

[darklighterz7611]

CCTV and alarm systems are NOT physical protection devices, nor can they be.

They cannot protect you, only inform you. That is what they are designed to do.

Nope they are there to deter the intruder. The same as the "physical protection devices you talk about" they are not perfect and can be overcome......the way they work is by detterence. A thief looks at a house looking like fort knox and will drive to the next. Why do you think they put that big flashing box on the front of your house when you install an alarm? Or the siren? lets be honest in a real situation the last thing you want is a thief in your house possibly with a weapon in a panic. The siren is to make them flee asap. a common technique over here in the uk is to drive around looking for houses without alarms.

And while were on the subject, alarms go off in my street all the time and at all hours and sometimes for hours, i have yet to see one police car check up on the situation.

If you want to stop your window breaking, look for polycarbonate glazing. It can be purchased in 1/16" and will toughen glass to the point of preventing breakage or shatter effect.

The problem is that not everybody has the money to reinforce there whole house this way. and while we are at it, whats to stop someone driving into your house through the walls or getting in through the roof them simply opening the door from the inside? If they want in they want in. at least an alarm will go off in this case.

But i agree both should be used, and for the most part any security improvements will have the required deterrent effect.

i was just saying if you havnt a lot of money paying out for a good high security doors, locks and frames is a lot when somewhere else could be main point of entry. And if you cant afford the complete physical package an alarm and camera would probably be your best bet. it would also provide insurance proof that someone picked your lock.

[globallockytoo]

I respectfully disagree.

You said it yourself, the police hear an alarm sounding in the street and barely notice or look around. What is the point of an alarm if the police refuse to even listen?

You dont think the burglar knows this? The burglar probably realizes that the police will do nothing anyhow. They are undeterred by alarms. But solid frames and quality locks on your doors combined with window protection devices like bars or glazing are all options available to a homeowner to protect and defend their property from potential break ins.

You cannot prevent a determined person from entering your property if they want to. They can just pull o roof tile and jump in through the ceiling if they want.

The point is though, with locks etc. you have a real physical barrier slowing them down or blocking them at the easier opportunities to enter.

The two worst enemies of criminals are time and noise (IN THAT ORDER). I will agree that slowing them down is fundamental and making a noise can be a back up (even though you just proved that noisemakers go unnoticed by the police EVEN IN THE SAME STREET!

[unlisted]

Since we are already a tad off topic:

Personally, I layer my security, and it does not stop at the structure.

I also don't make things obvious.

Bsmt windows all have those cheap burgular bars- easily bypassed with a hacksaw or screwdriver, but still there, and still a deterrent. Bsmt windows also have a plexiglass additional window added on the exterior to delay easy break in attempts. (all windows still function/ appear normal)

Some main floor windows not easily viewable by public have those cheap bars (and plexiglass) as well.

All hedges, shrubs are trimmed away/below from windows, giving a open clear view. Rose bushes are also planted with the shrubs, as another deterrent (who the heck wants to get thorned to get near a window??) There is also other plants that are very useful for this application. (and I know its quite common in England, I call them thorn bushes, and they have about a 1.5" spike all over- and hurt)

Alarm- yes. Properly installed, and basically false alarm proof. (no false alarms in over 6 years now) Bright flashing strobe light mounted on the front and REAR of the house, (unnoticeable until activated) along with interior and exterior siren boxes. (also all hidden) Interior siren is of a very loud, uncommon disorienting noise. (in other words, it actually causes nausea, and balance issues and causes a flight or fight response.... And well, you cannot fight what you cannot see.. so... flight is the only other option.)

Locks- Yes, I have good locks, and no, it does not look like fort knox. Only two keyed locks on exterior doors. All locks have nightlatch feature- which is used. Locks appear to be common locks, but with some special internal additions which would lessen the probability of a successful pick. (unless your a member on this site, or squelchtone)

Door frames- Thankfully made out of solid hardwood. Tied in and reinforced to the house frame- including some additional 2x4's to beef it all up. smallest screw used in/around the door and/or frame is 5"- most are 6" and some are 8". Even a few lag bolts thrown in for good measure.

Lighting. I have low voltage lighting in security specific places around the residence where the common street lamp does not cover. Standard outdoor house lighting is also used, with LED bulbs for cost effectiveness, and life span over CFL bulbs, which suck/die in Canadian winters.

CCTV- Is installed, but it not obvious. If you look for it, you will see it, but if your just walking down the street looking, it does not stand out.


One thing to remember, discrete is elite. You don't want to have a place that stands out as this would only bring more attention to your place. (people wondering what you got to lock up in there) My residence does not look any different/more secure/more security than any other on the street.

Cost of all this? Not that much actually:

Locks: $150.00
CCTV: $500.00
Door reinforcement: $ 60.00 each
Plexiglass/burg bars: $200.00 (I got a really good deal)
Alarm- $200.00 with a $120 year monitoring fee. (I own the alarm, and designed the layout)
Lighting: $100.00
Plants: $50.00 in rose bushes. (the shurbs were already there, I just trimmed them)

Looking at those numbers is slightly daunting when its all added up- but remember- this was not all paid out at once, this was done over a 4 year period. I'm sure I will be adding to it in the near future. Also considering on plans for a strong room for my lock collection to display-but this will be when I own property, not just rent.. (appropriate, no?)

When I move, most of the installed equipment comes with me- less the door frame reinforcement. (and some alarm sensors) Thats behind drywall. Basically the stuff I bought thus far is a lifetime investment. (less plexiglass, it has a shelf life thanks to mr sunshine)



Oh and the best security feature? Retired friendly neighbours on BOTH SIDES of my residence. They are the BEST security measure by far. (heck they called me once when my gf dropped by unannounced in a rental car when no one was home- the neighbours called me to warn of a strange car before she even had a chance to dial my number on her cell!)

Thats my two cents on this topic, even thou its slightly off topic.

[darklighterz7611]

Having read your replies im going to say that i have slightly changed my opinion. I now rate physical security a little higher than alarm and cctv, tho if i had neighbours like unlisted i probably would have stuck with my alarm theory Though I might just change my alarm to the sound of police sirens getting louder....that'll make them run

Unlisted: nice set up.

[unlisted]

Unlisted: nice set up.

Yup, totally excessive and unnecessary- and I would not have it any other way.

Just wait until I move, I have a funny feeling the whole house will be automated, including the locks/doors.

[Solomon]

Unlisted, I really like the sound of that alarm! I didn't know you could get alarms which emulated the noise of a nagging wife.

[unlisted]

I know its going to be almost impossible to believe, but the sound that emanates from the speaker is far worse than a nagging wife.. (or mother in law!)

Cough Cough- google "Acoustic Weapons"

[darklighterz7611]

Just wait until I move, I have a funny feeling the whole house will be automated, including the locks/doors.

If i lived there i would have to programme and build it all my self, there is no way that i trust a programmer/workman enough to do that, what if there is a fire and the programme sets the doors and windows to isolate the fire and lock without checking if there is someone inside the room?!?! There are just too many possible events that could happen......and i would always think that the house could end up like in one of those films where the mainframe wises up and tries to kill you